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So to start, we can agree then that Tesla isn't the first car company to scale in a "long time", right? I disagree that Tesla has done better on a global scale

So to start, we can agree then that Tesla isn't the first car company to scale in a "long time", right? I disagree that Tesla has done better on a global scale. Tesla requires 10x more subsidies per vehicle, doesn't own their battery supply chain, took longer to be profitable, made significant amounts of money from reservations they are yet to fulfill, etc... For all the talk of gigantic governmental pushes, the US still supports Tesla far more than China supports BYD simply by offering 5-7x more in subsidies per vehicle. I think, on the global scale, that BYD has done better and is doing better, as far as scale - they make almost as many cars as Tesla but also make far more than cars, such as buses, trucks, industrial equipment, various electronics - markets that Tesla has been unsuccessful in. The fact that they do so on lower revenue is a sign to me that they can simply produce more efficiently, ie, better at scaling.

panick21_ 4y ago
> Tesla requires 10x more subsidies per vehicle Simply not true. > For all the talk of gigantic governmental pushes, the US still supports Tesla far more than China supports BYD That is just false. China has throwing gigantic support behind the whole push to EV. Not to mention that BYD profited massively from the protection of the government from IP theft. China literally threw lots of money at the whole supply-chain that BYD is building on. And China had a large number of inventive programs for EVs as well, but Tesla profited from those 2. > doesn't own their battery supply chain BYD makes batteries but they certainty don't own their whole supply-chain. Tesla has started to make batteries and they are going deep into the supply-chain making their own materials and so on. > made significant amounts of money from reservations they are yet to fulfill Its not as much as you seem to think and it wouldn't change the overall picture. > I think, on the global scale, that BYD has done better and is doing better, as far as scale So how much does BYD sell in Europe and the US, its far less then Telsa does. BYD cars are mostly sold in China. They do sell buses and such outside of China. But in terms of Cars they massively profiting from targeting their local market first. > such as buses, trucks, industrial equipment, various electronics - markets that Tesla has been unsuccessful in. The fact that they do so on lower revenue is a sign to me that they can simply produce more efficiently, ie, better at scaling. Tesla makes revenue and more profit ... The fact remains: > here have been dozens of new car companies in China operating a far greater scale than Tesla This is false, and I corrected it.

panick21_ 4y ago

> Tesla requires 10x more subsidies per vehicle Simply not true. > For all the talk of gigantic governmental pushes, the US still supports Tesla far more than China supports BYD That is just false. China has throwing gigantic support behind the whole push to EV. Not to mention that BYD profited massively from the protection of the government from IP theft. China literally threw lots of money at the whole supply-chain that BYD is building on. And China had a large number of inventive programs for EVs as well, but Tesla profited from those 2. > doesn't own their battery supply chain BYD makes batteries but they certainty don't own their whole supply-chain. Tesla has started to make batteries and they are going deep into the supply-chain making their own materials and so on. > made significant amounts of money from reservations they are yet to fulfill Its not as much as you seem to think and it wouldn't change the overall picture. > I think, on the global scale, that BYD has done better and is doing better, as far as scale So how much does BYD sell in Europe and the US, its far less then Telsa does. BYD cars are mostly sold in China. They do sell buses and such outside of China. But in terms of Cars they massively profiting from targeting their local market first. > such as buses, trucks, industrial equipment, various electronics - markets that Tesla has been unsuccessful in. The fact that they do so on lower revenue is a sign to me that they can simply produce more efficiently, ie, better at scaling. Tesla makes revenue and more profit ... The fact remains: > here have been dozens of new car companies in China operating a far greater scale than Tesla This is false, and I corrected it.