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I have a different perspective and a question for HN. We always ask how to prevent corporations from surveilling us. How about letting them surveil BUT giving i

I have a different perspective and a question for HN. We always ask how to prevent corporations from surveilling us. How about letting them surveil BUT giving incorrect information? Intentionally do things (manually or automated) that gives them completely incorrect information about you. Avoiding surveillance is becoming very hard. But giving incorrect information is very easy.

protonbob 4y ago
I would say that it is becoming much harder. You need a real address to ship your items to that they will later correlate all of your activity to for example. In addition, many social media sights are requiring verification with government IDs. Try creating a Facebook account with fake details. They are able to filter these out pretty easily.
- AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
  I believe there's some misunderstanding. I meant letting them know who you are, but giving incorrect information about your beliefs and thoughts. I still believe that giving incorrect information can be very effective. Even if Google/NSA knows your name, they can only see the online activity that you choose to do. You can intentionally choose to give them very incorrect online activity. For example, intentionally visit websites (manually or automated) that you don't believe it. This will trip up their algorithm. How are they supposed to know what you actually think or believe in?
  - derevaunseraun 4y ago
    > For example, intentionally visit websites (manually or automated) that you don't believe it. This will trip up their algorithm. How are they supposed to know what you actually think or believe in? Imo the claim "We can suggest what you should do next, what you care about. Imagine: We know where you are, we know what you like." is just a sales pitch to the data industry in disguise. They know what we do, but it isn't possible to know what we think without making a bunch of assumptions
woojoo666 4y ago
The only tool I know of like this is Ad Nauseum [1] [1]: https://adnauseam.io/ https://adnauseam.io/
- AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
  Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. There was another tool called something like "noisify". It intentionally visited random websites or clicked on random links to trip up any algorithm tracking you. That idea was fascinating.
usernomdeguerre 4y ago
A gotcha that I think's lurking here is that there's no opportunity to appeal the classifications you're bucketed into. Meaning that even if you give 'it' incorrect data, the way you get bucketed could still have a negative impact on your life. Hypothetical, imagine your fake profile indicates you are a minority in some demographic dimension that is now out of favor politically. The dragnet would not really care if it happens to be true for you or not. I'm recalling the Turkish cleansing of a local religious sect from all government jobs when its two leaders had a falling-out. This could happen in any country, imo.
- AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
  Interesting point. I guess one way to avoid that could be making them believe that you are on their (govts) side? Intentionally click on pro-govt websites, etc. If there is a conflict and you don't know who will come out on top, either support both of them (one actual support and one fake) or don't support either of them. Either way, I believe that this topic of giving incorrect information is worth looking more into.
defrost 4y ago
IIRC the Brave browser is fuzzing "unique id" browser properties (screen resolution, CPU, language, time zone) to spread the users browsing fingerprints wider.

protonbob 4y ago

I would say that it is becoming much harder. You need a real address to ship your items to that they will later correlate all of your activity to for example. In addition, many social media sights are requiring verification with government IDs. Try creating a Facebook account with fake details. They are able to filter these out pretty easily.

AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
I believe there's some misunderstanding. I meant letting them know who you are, but giving incorrect information about your beliefs and thoughts. I still believe that giving incorrect information can be very effective. Even if Google/NSA knows your name, they can only see the online activity that you choose to do. You can intentionally choose to give them very incorrect online activity. For example, intentionally visit websites (manually or automated) that you don't believe it. This will trip up their algorithm. How are they supposed to know what you actually think or believe in?
- derevaunseraun 4y ago
  > For example, intentionally visit websites (manually or automated) that you don't believe it. This will trip up their algorithm. How are they supposed to know what you actually think or believe in? Imo the claim "We can suggest what you should do next, what you care about. Imagine: We know where you are, we know what you like." is just a sales pitch to the data industry in disguise. They know what we do, but it isn't possible to know what we think without making a bunch of assumptions

woojoo666 4y ago

The only tool I know of like this is Ad Nauseum [1] [1]: https://adnauseam.io/ https://adnauseam.io/

AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. There was another tool called something like "noisify". It intentionally visited random websites or clicked on random links to trip up any algorithm tracking you. That idea was fascinating.

usernomdeguerre 4y ago

A gotcha that I think's lurking here is that there's no opportunity to appeal the classifications you're bucketed into. Meaning that even if you give 'it' incorrect data, the way you get bucketed could still have a negative impact on your life. Hypothetical, imagine your fake profile indicates you are a minority in some demographic dimension that is now out of favor politically. The dragnet would not really care if it happens to be true for you or not. I'm recalling the Turkish cleansing of a local religious sect from all government jobs when its two leaders had a falling-out. This could happen in any country, imo.

AlexanderTheGr8 4y ago
Interesting point. I guess one way to avoid that could be making them believe that you are on their (govts) side? Intentionally click on pro-govt websites, etc. If there is a conflict and you don't know who will come out on top, either support both of them (one actual support and one fake) or don't support either of them. Either way, I believe that this topic of giving incorrect information is worth looking more into.

defrost 4y ago

IIRC the Brave browser is fuzzing "unique id" browser properties (screen resolution, CPU, language, time zone) to spread the users browsing fingerprints wider.