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> I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence. But these aren’t “conservatives in general”. These are pe

by slg 4y ago

> I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence. But these aren’t “conservatives in general”. These are people who are at the very least fascist sympathizers. No one serious is calling Mitt Romney a nazi.

BitwiseFool 4y ago
>" No one serious is calling Mitt Romney a nazi." It happened a lot more often back in 2012 when he was running for President.
- slg 4y ago
  And plenty of people today call Joe Biden a communist. Yet if someone has a "Punch a Communist" bumper sticker, I'm not going to call up the Secret Service saying someone is threatening the president because I know that name-calling is inherently unserious. Meanwhile Richard Spencer's Wikipedia page starts with "Richard Bertrand Spencer (born May 1978) is an American neo-Nazi..." It is entirely fair to call that guy a Nazi and it is the reason the modern "punch a Nazi" meme centers on him.
  - BitwiseFool 4y ago
    >"I know that name-calling is inherently unserious." But I must beg the question, if society normalizes and encourages violence against Nazis, doesn't that mean that calling someone a Nazi is a potentially serious act? And, what if they aren't really a Nazi? The term "stochastic terrorism" has been discussed and I believe it applies here. This is the definition I pulled from dicitonary.com: "the public demonization of a person or group resulting in the incitement of a violent act, which is statistically probable but whose specifics cannot be predicted"
    - slg 4y ago
      >But I must beg the question, if society normalizes and encourages violence against Nazis, doesn't that mean that calling someone a Nazi is a potentially serious act? And, what if they aren't really a Nazi? Context is important and it seems like you are trying to blur that context for the sake of an argument. "Mitt Romeny is a Nazi" is not a serious opinion. "Punch a Nazi" is only a slightly more serious notion, but there is firmly a tongue in cheek aspect to it. There is a reason why the only "punching of a Nazi" to reach any type of penetration into pop culture was from the year before this Kickstarter was launched. This comic is not a serious threat anymore than your average issue of The Punisher.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        >"Punch a Nazi" is only a slightly more serious notion, but there is firmly a tongue in cheek aspect to it. I think we are debating cross topic. There is a literal argument that if you think someone is a Nazi you should punch them in the face. It is not a widespread sentiment but advocated by fringe people. Others are arguing against the literal interpretation. If you disagree with the literal interpretation, I think discussion of abstractions would be more fruitful
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Anyone can call anyone a Nazi. The question is whether someone can make an individual determination that they think another person is a fascist, and whether this is a legitimate moral defense of extra judicial violence. Do individuals or groups have a moral right to judge others and carryout violence outside of the legal system
- slg 4y ago
  >Anyone can call anyone a criminal. The question is whether someone can make an individual determination that they think another person is a criminal, and whether this is a legitimate moral defense of extra judicial violence. Do individuals or groups have a moral right to judge others and carryout violence outside of the legal system That is basically all comic books. Why are you criticizing this one and not like Batman or something?
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Being a Nazi isn't criminal, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just pointing out why the comic was controversial. I don't think it should be illegal to print, but can see how Kickstarter employees could see it as advocating violence in the context of it's name and origin. I think employees would be similarly outraged if someone was crowd funding a comic called "how to mow down leftists" after the Charlottesville car attack. Again, not illegal, but you could see it as advocating vigilantism and not want it on their platform. In general, I oppose vigilantism and violence, and think both sentiments are detestable.
    - joshuamorton 4y ago
      No see I really want to press you on this, because I want to hear how a theoretical stance in support of violence against unarmed, peaceful protestors (Charlottesville) is equivalent to support of violence against violent armed people who more often than not are the ones initiating the violence. One of those could maybe be called vigilantism. The other isn't, its terrorism.
vkou 4y ago
At this point, Mitt Romney is a RINO - republican in name only. The party has moved way past his kind of politics.

by slg 4y ago

BitwiseFool 4y ago

>" No one serious is calling Mitt Romney a nazi." It happened a lot more often back in 2012 when he was running for President.

slg 4y ago
And plenty of people today call Joe Biden a communist. Yet if someone has a "Punch a Communist" bumper sticker, I'm not going to call up the Secret Service saying someone is threatening the president because I know that name-calling is inherently unserious. Meanwhile Richard Spencer's Wikipedia page starts with "Richard Bertrand Spencer (born May 1978) is an American neo-Nazi..." It is entirely fair to call that guy a Nazi and it is the reason the modern "punch a Nazi" meme centers on him.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  >"I know that name-calling is inherently unserious." But I must beg the question, if society normalizes and encourages violence against Nazis, doesn't that mean that calling someone a Nazi is a potentially serious act? And, what if they aren't really a Nazi? The term "stochastic terrorism" has been discussed and I believe it applies here. This is the definition I pulled from dicitonary.com: "the public demonization of a person or group resulting in the incitement of a violent act, which is statistically probable but whose specifics cannot be predicted"
  - slg 4y ago
    >But I must beg the question, if society normalizes and encourages violence against Nazis, doesn't that mean that calling someone a Nazi is a potentially serious act? And, what if they aren't really a Nazi? Context is important and it seems like you are trying to blur that context for the sake of an argument. "Mitt Romeny is a Nazi" is not a serious opinion. "Punch a Nazi" is only a slightly more serious notion, but there is firmly a tongue in cheek aspect to it. There is a reason why the only "punching of a Nazi" to reach any type of penetration into pop culture was from the year before this Kickstarter was launched. This comic is not a serious threat anymore than your average issue of The Punisher.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      >"Punch a Nazi" is only a slightly more serious notion, but there is firmly a tongue in cheek aspect to it. I think we are debating cross topic. There is a literal argument that if you think someone is a Nazi you should punch them in the face. It is not a widespread sentiment but advocated by fringe people. Others are arguing against the literal interpretation. If you disagree with the literal interpretation, I think discussion of abstractions would be more fruitful

s1artibartfast 4y ago

Anyone can call anyone a Nazi. The question is whether someone can make an individual determination that they think another person is a fascist, and whether this is a legitimate moral defense of extra judicial violence. Do individuals or groups have a moral right to judge others and carryout violence outside of the legal system

slg 4y ago
>Anyone can call anyone a criminal. The question is whether someone can make an individual determination that they think another person is a criminal, and whether this is a legitimate moral defense of extra judicial violence. Do individuals or groups have a moral right to judge others and carryout violence outside of the legal system That is basically all comic books. Why are you criticizing this one and not like Batman or something?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Being a Nazi isn't criminal, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just pointing out why the comic was controversial. I don't think it should be illegal to print, but can see how Kickstarter employees could see it as advocating violence in the context of it's name and origin. I think employees would be similarly outraged if someone was crowd funding a comic called "how to mow down leftists" after the Charlottesville car attack. Again, not illegal, but you could see it as advocating vigilantism and not want it on their platform. In general, I oppose vigilantism and violence, and think both sentiments are detestable.
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    No see I really want to press you on this, because I want to hear how a theoretical stance in support of violence against unarmed, peaceful protestors (Charlottesville) is equivalent to support of violence against violent armed people who more often than not are the ones initiating the violence. One of those could maybe be called vigilantism. The other isn't, its terrorism.

vkou 4y ago

At this point, Mitt Romney is a RINO - republican in name only. The party has moved way past his kind of politics.