3 ms·

electrical heating is 100% efficient - heat pumps, though, have higher efficiency since they're just moving heat instead of generating it.

anonymousab 4y ago
100% efficient at the home, but not necessarily overall. Power generation itself and transmission to the home can be much less efficient (and much more expensive!) than, say, home natural gas heating. Depends on the area and many other factors, e.g. how the electricity is generated. In much of the northern US/south eastern Canada, electric heating is much more expensive and less efficient overall.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  >natural gas heating Natural gas heating is less than 100% efficient (if a new furnace maybe in the area of 80%), and causes global warming. >Power generation itself and transmission is separate from the efficiency of the heating process, which is 100% efficient.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    If the electric power at your home was originally generated by natural gas, it’s more efficient for you to burn the gas yourself.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      but if it wasn't, then it isn't.
      - philwelch 4y ago
        I thought that went without saying, but you’ve gone and said it anyway and you aren’t wrong. Unless your power is generated by coal, in which case you’re even better off using natural gas.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    A discussion about the (in)efficiency of mining is necessarily one about externalities, so arguably you can‘t ignore these.
ericbarrett 4y ago
To put it in perspective, heat pumps typically have an "efficiency" (coefficient of performance) of 250-350%, meaning they pump 2.5-3.5 times as much energy as they consume. So it's roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost to heat the same amount of space.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  the problem is that as the outside gets colder, heat pumps get less efficient, so places that need the most heating benefit the least from heat pumps, and those are the places that use the most amount of energy for heat. So yes, I agree, but heat pumps have cold weather limitations that mean they only benefit relatively warm climates.
  - ericbarrett 4y ago
    True, but if the heat pump is designed to operate in very cold weather the minimum efficiency is 100% (backup resistance heating), so you will always at least break even versus pure resistance heating. Discounting equipment costs of course :) Also, I've never seen a building (in the U.S.) that relies on electric heating if temps in the area will get much below 10°F (-12°C). At that point, it's always natgas/propane/fuel oil/wood.
    - Epa095 4y ago
      > if the heat pump is designed to operate in very cold weather the minimum efficiency is 100% (backup resistance heating), so you will always at least break even versus pure resistance heating. But the heat pump has a "outside" part, where there is a fan and other electrify using stuff. Can you not risk that more heat is generated outside than is moved inside?
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      >I've never seen a building (in the U.S.) Sadly I've seen many buildings (apartments and homes) that use electric baseboard heaters, and you probably have as well. They just aren't very modern.
  - 4y ago
lxgr 4y ago
Only if you disregard how it‘s produced. Burning gas to generate electricity to heat a home is much less efficient than just burning the gas within that home, for example.

anonymousab 4y ago

100% efficient at the home, but not necessarily overall. Power generation itself and transmission to the home can be much less efficient (and much more expensive!) than, say, home natural gas heating. Depends on the area and many other factors, e.g. how the electricity is generated. In much of the northern US/south eastern Canada, electric heating is much more expensive and less efficient overall.

LegitShady 4y ago
>natural gas heating Natural gas heating is less than 100% efficient (if a new furnace maybe in the area of 80%), and causes global warming. >Power generation itself and transmission is separate from the efficiency of the heating process, which is 100% efficient.
- philwelch 4y ago
  If the electric power at your home was originally generated by natural gas, it’s more efficient for you to burn the gas yourself.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    but if it wasn't, then it isn't.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      I thought that went without saying, but you’ve gone and said it anyway and you aren’t wrong. Unless your power is generated by coal, in which case you’re even better off using natural gas.
- lxgr 4y ago
  A discussion about the (in)efficiency of mining is necessarily one about externalities, so arguably you can‘t ignore these.

ericbarrett 4y ago

To put it in perspective, heat pumps typically have an "efficiency" (coefficient of performance) of 250-350%, meaning they pump 2.5-3.5 times as much energy as they consume. So it's roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost to heat the same amount of space.

LegitShady 4y ago
the problem is that as the outside gets colder, heat pumps get less efficient, so places that need the most heating benefit the least from heat pumps, and those are the places that use the most amount of energy for heat. So yes, I agree, but heat pumps have cold weather limitations that mean they only benefit relatively warm climates.
- ericbarrett 4y ago
  True, but if the heat pump is designed to operate in very cold weather the minimum efficiency is 100% (backup resistance heating), so you will always at least break even versus pure resistance heating. Discounting equipment costs of course :) Also, I've never seen a building (in the U.S.) that relies on electric heating if temps in the area will get much below 10°F (-12°C). At that point, it's always natgas/propane/fuel oil/wood.
  - Epa095 4y ago
    > if the heat pump is designed to operate in very cold weather the minimum efficiency is 100% (backup resistance heating), so you will always at least break even versus pure resistance heating. But the heat pump has a "outside" part, where there is a fan and other electrify using stuff. Can you not risk that more heat is generated outside than is moved inside?
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    >I've never seen a building (in the U.S.) Sadly I've seen many buildings (apartments and homes) that use electric baseboard heaters, and you probably have as well. They just aren't very modern.
- 4y ago

lxgr 4y ago

Only if you disregard how it‘s produced. Burning gas to generate electricity to heat a home is much less efficient than just burning the gas within that home, for example.