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Prisoners also cost a ridiculous amount of public funds -I’ve seen numbers in the $100k-$150k/year range-. Prison work contributes to sentence reduction and con

Prisoners also cost a ridiculous amount of public funds -I’ve seen numbers in the $100k-$150k/year range-. Prison work contributes to sentence reduction and contributes to their cost of imprisonment.

mirntyfirty 4y ago
The value they create doesn’t reduce the public fund contributions.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  of course it does. The prison companies would charge more if they didn't have the prison labor.
  - yywwbbn 4y ago
    I’m not sure if this specific market is really that free, more likely they’d continue charging as much as they can get away with. Also relatively few prisons are private.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      At public prison it's even more clear that using prisoners as slaves saves the state money.
      - mirntyfirty 4y ago
        If this is clear....where is the evidence?
        colinmhayes 4y ago
        Paying people for their work tautologically costs more than not paying them. YOu need evidence for that?
        yywwbbn 4y ago
        The money saved can be wasted or used to build new prisons since there might not be much pressure (political or market) to put it back into the state budget. You know what would be the best way to save money? Cut the prison population in half..
mywittyname 4y ago
> Prisoners also cost a ridiculous amount of public funds That's the point. Imprisoning people should be expensive so that it is used judiciously as a punishment. Other countries have done very well at ensuring that former prisoners are turned into productive members of society. So the USA can accomplish the same.
- jpgvm 4y ago
  Other countries also have universal healthcare, free tertiary education and all sorts of things you would expect from a developed country. I've come to the conclusion that the US is just a rich country with a huge military industrial complex that masquerades as a developed country while doing all the things it denigrates poorer countries for. So while the USA can definitely afford to be a developed country I wouldn't hold your breath.
- nybble41 4y ago
  > Imprisoning people should be expensive so that it is used judiciously as a punishment. It shouldn't be used as a punishment at all. It makes sense only in cases where a convicted criminal represents a serious threat to other members of society which can only be mitigated through isolation—in which case the isolation should continue until there is no longer a threat. In all other situations we should be able to come up with more immediate and effective forms of punishment; ideally ones with an element of restitution for the victims. (Also: If there are no victims seeking restitution then there shouldn't be a conviction in the first place, much less punishment.)
archhn 4y ago
That high cost is bureaucratic bloat which ultimately gets funneled into the pockets of the wealthy and powerful who make decisions against the wellbeing of the poor, contributing to the perrenial cycle of incarceration. Some people definitely deserve to be forced to pay for what they've done. But if a man is born into a decaying and violent environment, and he commits crimes, keeping with the norm of his peers, why should all the guilt be put upon him? I say state corruption, or mismanagement, is guilty for much crime. It's a complicated system. The label "criminal" tends to be a thought-terminating classification that prevents further analysis and assessment of what causes criminality.

mirntyfirty 4y ago

The value they create doesn’t reduce the public fund contributions.

colinmhayes 4y ago
of course it does. The prison companies would charge more if they didn't have the prison labor.
- yywwbbn 4y ago
  I’m not sure if this specific market is really that free, more likely they’d continue charging as much as they can get away with. Also relatively few prisons are private.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    At public prison it's even more clear that using prisoners as slaves saves the state money.
    - mirntyfirty 4y ago
      If this is clear....where is the evidence?
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
        Paying people for their work tautologically costs more than not paying them. YOu need evidence for that?
        yywwbbn 4y ago
        The money saved can be wasted or used to build new prisons since there might not be much pressure (political or market) to put it back into the state budget. You know what would be the best way to save money? Cut the prison population in half..

mywittyname 4y ago

> Prisoners also cost a ridiculous amount of public funds That's the point. Imprisoning people should be expensive so that it is used judiciously as a punishment. Other countries have done very well at ensuring that former prisoners are turned into productive members of society. So the USA can accomplish the same.

jpgvm 4y ago
Other countries also have universal healthcare, free tertiary education and all sorts of things you would expect from a developed country. I've come to the conclusion that the US is just a rich country with a huge military industrial complex that masquerades as a developed country while doing all the things it denigrates poorer countries for. So while the USA can definitely afford to be a developed country I wouldn't hold your breath.
nybble41 4y ago
> Imprisoning people should be expensive so that it is used judiciously as a punishment. It shouldn't be used as a punishment at all. It makes sense only in cases where a convicted criminal represents a serious threat to other members of society which can only be mitigated through isolation—in which case the isolation should continue until there is no longer a threat. In all other situations we should be able to come up with more immediate and effective forms of punishment; ideally ones with an element of restitution for the victims. (Also: If there are no victims seeking restitution then there shouldn't be a conviction in the first place, much less punishment.)

archhn 4y ago

That high cost is bureaucratic bloat which ultimately gets funneled into the pockets of the wealthy and powerful who make decisions against the wellbeing of the poor, contributing to the perrenial cycle of incarceration. Some people definitely deserve to be forced to pay for what they've done. But if a man is born into a decaying and violent environment, and he commits crimes, keeping with the norm of his peers, why should all the guilt be put upon him? I say state corruption, or mismanagement, is guilty for much crime. It's a complicated system. The label "criminal" tends to be a thought-terminating classification that prevents further analysis and assessment of what causes criminality.