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> Alternatively, literally every white woman I know has told me they find the pressure to appear presentable, to look in a certain way, oppressive and stressful

> Alternatively, literally every white woman I know has told me they find the pressure to appear presentable, to look in a certain way, oppressive and stressful. Yes, it is oppressive and stressful, but the stakes are dramatically different, and so is the reason -- intrasexual competition. In case of covering your face for religious reasons, the penalty for disobeying, in worst case, is death. Specifically, a murder, usually by your relatives, for reasons that are typically translated to English as "honor", although the meaning clearly is not the same. A white woman who refuses to use make-up, will miss some opportunities in her life. Another woman will take the partner she wanted, or the promotion she deserved. She may get bullied by other women, especially at high school. Those all are impacts that reduce her quality of life. But how is it related to domestic violence? I have never heard a serious suggestion that the real cause of domestic violence is lack of being presentable. Similarly, what are the public spaces that exclude insufficiently presentable white women: streets? parks? cinemas? universities? trains? Okay, I am sure there are some parties where only the pretty girls are invited, but those probably exclude most men, too. Anyway, I think that "you may be skipped for a promotion" and "someone quite likely will slit your throat" are not the same category of threat. Both can feel oppressive and stressful, but I am sure way more women would trade their problems in one direction than in the other.

pasabagi 4y ago
My observation is that, in households where sexism is a real problem, the public-facing stuff isn't likely to be the meat of it. Nobody who has a husband who might murder them considers religious attire as the worst thing about their relationship. The worst thing is having a husband who is controlling and homicidal. The point is, both muslim and non-muslim women face that in most countries around the world, because most countries are systematically patriarchal and domestic violence is largely normalized. In every country in europe, domestic violence makes up the vast majority of violent crime, and murders are most likely, especially for women, to be committed by family members. So by focusing on the hijab and the makeup thing, you're missing my broader point: that muslim women face oppression as women, and not as muslims, except insofar as they are the targets of racial discrimination. The mechanisms that allow partners to coerce muslim women are the same as those that allow partners to exercise coercive power over white women.

pasabagi 4y ago

My observation is that, in households where sexism is a real problem, the public-facing stuff isn't likely to be the meat of it. Nobody who has a husband who might murder them considers religious attire as the worst thing about their relationship. The worst thing is having a husband who is controlling and homicidal. The point is, both muslim and non-muslim women face that in most countries around the world, because most countries are systematically patriarchal and domestic violence is largely normalized. In every country in europe, domestic violence makes up the vast majority of violent crime, and murders are most likely, especially for women, to be committed by family members. So by focusing on the hijab and the makeup thing, you're missing my broader point: that muslim women face oppression as women, and not as muslims, except insofar as they are the targets of racial discrimination. The mechanisms that allow partners to coerce muslim women are the same as those that allow partners to exercise coercive power over white women.