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US prison slaves produce $11B worth of goods and services
- superb-owl 4y agoThe U.S. prison system may be America's greatest modern moral catastrophe.
- twiddling 4y agohttps://eji.org/news/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor/ https://eji.org/news/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor/ The Thirteenth Amendment, ratified in 1865, made slavery and involuntary servitude unconstitutional in the United States “except as punishment for crime.”
- markovbot 4y agoThis one disappeared from the front page real quick
- krapp 4y agoToo "political."
- markovbot 4y agoyep. Those darn liberals calling "voluntary" labor slavery.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- krapp 4y agoI wouldn't really consider prison labor "voluntary." Yes, technically one could choose solitary confinement, loss of even what few privileges one has as an inmate, or never be allowed to see one's family again, but that's like putting a gun to someone's head and claiming they "voluntarily" signed a contract because they could just as well have chosen to have their brains splattered across the wall. Plus, it is explicitly a continuation of slavery per the Thirteenth Amendment.
- markovbot 4y agoNor would I. I was sarcastically making fun of the incredible brain rot on this stupid website. What's being done to these people is monstrous and the monsters who profit off of it will never know even the slightest discomfort, not to mention be appropriately punished for their behavior.
- x86_64Ubuntu 4y agoBut if it were about the income generated by China's incarcerated Uighur population, it most certainly wouldn't have disappeared so quickly.
- sk8terboi 4y agoThanks China
- markovbot 4y agoyep, slavery definitely isn't an age old American tradition, it's China's fault!
- justsomehnguy 4y agoCan someone from the US chime in on what is their opinion of The Hill? I have an idea who they are and who are their main target, but I would be grateful for an additional POV.
- fallingfrog 4y agoThey seem generally to stick to the facts. The kinds of stories they run usually appeal to a more center/left crowd.
- nomel 4y agoAs some evidence, The Hill shows up ever so slightly left center in both of these bias charts, with a pretty good "factual" score: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/ https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/
- nickthegreek 4y agothehill updates quite frequently with the days inside baseball and I find their non-opinion articles to be decent. Their opinion pieces are complete trash and really hurt their brand.
- MarkMarine 4y agoIt's a right wing internet site, that sometimes shows some left ideas that are usually critical of the "left" democratic party in what seems like a cynical ploy to horseshoe theory some leftists in the country while usually interleaving that content with some content that is basically right out of the republican messaging for the day from the GOP.
- pessimizer 4y agoThis can't be true. We criticize China for prison labor. That would be like someone who beats their own children criticizing someone else for beating their own children. Phil Ochs - Another Country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Ty66Z3mvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Ty66Z3mvk
- notch656a 4y agoPolice have higher rates of domestic violence than the general populace. Do you want to stop police from apprehending those who beat their family? Seems fair for a hypocrite to call out another hypocrite. Maybe by some sort of miracle a self-corrective loop can emerge.
- hanhphuc 4y agoThe difference is that we (America) can change China and the Indo-Pacific, but not the US prison system. Something about balance of powers, executive branch balanced by whatever it wants...maybe I'm misremembering what I learned in school though. Anyway, it's just common sense. I believe we have the tools to change things in that area of the world, but not domestically. Our hands our tied here, so how will we deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of citizens do commit crimes that lead to long sentences. If we don't jail a few hundred thousand of these people, then will it lead to problems in society or the economy? Inflation is already hard enough on the rich and poor. Around Xinjiang, we have more tools available to stop the prison labor there, like industry sanctions. The ROI of working on Xinjiang is higher than the ROI: the conditions there are worse according to what I've read and we have more powerful tools at our disposal. So, let's keep our head clear and focused on China. (Hopefully it's clear I don't truly believe what I wrote. It just sounds logical to me.)
- x86_64Ubuntu 4y ago>...The difference is that we (America) can change China and the Indo-Pacific, but not the US prison system. I'm not sure how ending prison slavery abroad in a sovereign country is supposedly easier than ending it at home, especially in a country that rambles incessantly about "freedom". The fact of the matter is that much of the US population likes the system, and by focusing on China, we don't have to acknowledge that offensive fact.
- jdkee 4y ago". . . the government takes up to 80 percent of the pay for room and board, court costs, restitution and other fees, including the construction and maintenance of prisons." Where is the balance between incarceration being punitive versus rehabilitative?
- ultrarunner 4y agoIn the future, hopefully, but probably in the distant future. It is common to hear about people "getting what they deserve" but very uncommon to hear a hope that the criminal becomes a better member of society.
- mechanical_bear 4y agoThis should be flagged due to misleading title change.
- Scalene2 4y agoWhat makes you think that they aren't slaves?
- heretogetout 4y agoA _lot_ of folks believe that the US banned slavery within its borders.
- markovbot 4y agoWhich is why correcting that harmful, false narrative is critical
- throwaway0a5e 4y agoCountries "ban" all sorts of things with the government being exempted from the ban. Some animals are more equal.
- markovbot 4y agoWhat part of the title is misleading? the HN title fixes simply removes some inaccurate language from the original article.
- the_only_law 4y agoTitles aren't supposed to be editorlized in general on HN. I think there are some cases where it's ok, perhaps if the title is particularly nonsensical or clickbaity.
- nverno 4y ago'inmates' is a more accurate descriptor. A 'slave' could refer to anyone being forced to work for no pay, whereas an inmate means that as well as a bunch of other relevant stuff.
- lofatdairy 4y agoKnowing Better on YouTube produced a really good documentary answering "when was the last slave freed?" [^1]. His argument is that it didn't end until 1942, a mere 80 years ago. A big part of the reason why was the prison system and legal system, which was structured around criminalizing blackness, and using this to fulfill an economic need. Articles like this make me think perhaps 1942 may be a bit optimistic, after all, we still rely heavily on prison labour without allowing incarcerated people to earn sufficient funds to support themselves after their rehabilitation, and we're still fighting the war on drugs that started under Nixon. That said, I'm not sure how non Americans feel about US politics being discussed here, since I rarely see news about domestic issues in other countries. [^1]: https://youtu.be/j4kI2h3iotA https://youtu.be/j4kI2h3iotA
- Overtonwindow 4y agoYou can refuse work in prison. You will be punished, but I think it’s a little bit less harsh than slavery. The prison system does not own the inmates, they are not property, and the prison inmates do have rights. Slaves had no rights. So all this might look good for sensationalism, it’s not entirely accurate.
- anonymoushn 4y agoYou should be clear that slaves who refuse to work are tortured.
- O__________O 4y agoReposted since it appears to have been flagged for the title edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31783508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31783508
- moistly 4y agoThe embarrassment of it all is this: a study of global prison systems and their efficacy tells us what our governments should be doing. If we want to improve recidivism rates, we can look around at this world and do something better. If we want to inflict more punishment, there’s no end to the examples of inhumane torture. If we want to turn it into a profitable big-business slavery farm and factory system, we can find free-market exemplars. We, our government, need to temper the amoral economic system if we wish to avoid having slavery-adjacent for-profit businesses running amuck on our land.