4 ms·

Everyone already has what you are describing by default, anyone anywhere can say anything at all, the issue is whatever consequences come from that, be it jail

Everyone already has what you are describing by default, anyone anywhere can say anything at all, the issue is whatever consequences come from that, be it jail time like in Russia for speaking about the war, or losing your job at SpaceX. Being a free speech absolutist is meaningless if you are going to fire people the moment they say something you don't like.

googlryas 4y ago
I don't think anyone would claim that a place where you have free speech, but you might just get murdered by your government for your free speech, is a place where free speech exists
- joenathanone 4y ago
  Free speech implies a certain amount of freedom from consequences of that speech. If you are a free speech absolutist, it would mean believing in no consequences.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    > Free speech implies a certain amount of freedom from consequences of that speech. Yes. Like not getting banned from the public square for giving your speech, or not getting arrested by the government for your free speech. No one has ever argued that truly free speech means no one can judge you on what you are saying. > If you are a free speech absolutist, it would mean believing in no consequences. It would mean either that, or that you are using the phrase in a different manner than other people who use the phrase. I find this whole exercise silly. I view it as 1) I don't like someone 2) Someone says he is X 3) To me, X means Y 4) Someone is not a Y 5) Therefore, someone is a hypocrite and (1) is justified.
    - joenathanone 4y ago
      >It would mean either that, or that you are using the phrase in a different manner than other people who use the phrase. Words have meaning, if they didn't then there would be no such thing as hypocrisy because everyone could just have their own little definition for a term or title they want to adopt but not be burdened to live by. To Elon rules apply to thee and not me, these firings are text book hypocrisy.
      - googlryas 4y ago
        Words have meaning, but that doesn't mean that: 1) The meaning of a phrase is the same as the meaning of stringing together the individual word definitions of the phrase. 2) There is a universally accepted, obvious definition of a phrase I think you could reasonably call yourself a free speech absolutist, because you will never kick someone out of the public square for saying their peace, but you are still be allowed to not invite that person to your house for dinner.
        joenathanone 4y ago
        >I think you could reasonably call yourself a free speech absolutist, because you will never kick someone out of the public square for saying their peace, but you are still be allowed to not invite that person to your house for dinner. What you describe is just regular ole free speech.
        googlryas 4y ago
        Then whatever Twitter is/was does not align with "regular ole free speech", based on the people they've banned from their public square (and yes, public squares can be on private property).
meatsauce 4y ago
There is no comparison between public debate within the letter of the law and what a private company does with insubordinate employees that are disrupting the business.
samhyde69 4y ago

googlryas 4y ago

I don't think anyone would claim that a place where you have free speech, but you might just get murdered by your government for your free speech, is a place where free speech exists

joenathanone 4y ago
Free speech implies a certain amount of freedom from consequences of that speech. If you are a free speech absolutist, it would mean believing in no consequences.
- googlryas 4y ago
  > Free speech implies a certain amount of freedom from consequences of that speech. Yes. Like not getting banned from the public square for giving your speech, or not getting arrested by the government for your free speech. No one has ever argued that truly free speech means no one can judge you on what you are saying. > If you are a free speech absolutist, it would mean believing in no consequences. It would mean either that, or that you are using the phrase in a different manner than other people who use the phrase. I find this whole exercise silly. I view it as 1) I don't like someone 2) Someone says he is X 3) To me, X means Y 4) Someone is not a Y 5) Therefore, someone is a hypocrite and (1) is justified.
  - joenathanone 4y ago
    >It would mean either that, or that you are using the phrase in a different manner than other people who use the phrase. Words have meaning, if they didn't then there would be no such thing as hypocrisy because everyone could just have their own little definition for a term or title they want to adopt but not be burdened to live by. To Elon rules apply to thee and not me, these firings are text book hypocrisy.
    - googlryas 4y ago
      Words have meaning, but that doesn't mean that: 1) The meaning of a phrase is the same as the meaning of stringing together the individual word definitions of the phrase. 2) There is a universally accepted, obvious definition of a phrase I think you could reasonably call yourself a free speech absolutist, because you will never kick someone out of the public square for saying their peace, but you are still be allowed to not invite that person to your house for dinner.
      - joenathanone 4y ago
        >I think you could reasonably call yourself a free speech absolutist, because you will never kick someone out of the public square for saying their peace, but you are still be allowed to not invite that person to your house for dinner. What you describe is just regular ole free speech.
        googlryas 4y ago
        Then whatever Twitter is/was does not align with "regular ole free speech", based on the people they've banned from their public square (and yes, public squares can be on private property).

meatsauce 4y ago

There is no comparison between public debate within the letter of the law and what a private company does with insubordinate employees that are disrupting the business.

samhyde69 4y ago