3 ms·

> These people need to get over themselves. And how do you not apply this to Musk, who fired people after a bit of critique?

bko 4y ago
It's his organization. Why is that so hard to understand? The leader and some person working there are not the same. If I hired a cleaner and she started posting publicly how shitty my interior design, I would fire this person. It's not what you pay her to do. I would argue it was a good move. Like I said, its a distraction and completely out of line. Imagine you were managing someone and they think its okay to arbitrarily go above your head and call you out publicly. This is incredibly toxic and not a person living in the real world.
- toomanyrichies 4y ago
  Technically, the organization belongs to a group of shareholders, of which Musk is one. And apparently, Musk is now a minority owner.[1] And as chairman and CEO, Musk has a fiduciary duty to the other owners to act in the best interests of the company. I would argue that he failing to abide by that directive by failing to apply the "no assholes" policy to himself (along with the other points the letter makes), thereby harming recruitment and branding efforts. Also, you're comparing complaints about the company's double standards with a cleaner complaining about shitty interior design? Do you really think those two things are equivalent? 1. https://wccftech.com/elon-musk-now-owns-less-than-half-of-spacexs-shares-reveal-filings/ https://wccftech.com/elon-musk-now-owns-less-than-half-of-sp...
  - LouisSayers 4y ago
    And in the context of SpaceX, how exactly has he been "an asshole"? People don't have to like him, but it doesn't seem he's actually done anything other than make people work hard at their jobs...
    - trs8080 4y ago
      SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell on Monday said the aerospace company's "no a--hole" work policy ensures everyone is heard and creates space for staff to propose big ideas. "At SpaceX, we have a 'no a--hole' policy," Shotwell said in a virtual speech to graduates in Northwestern University's 2021 commencement ceremony. "These kinds of people — a--holes — interrupt others, they shut down or co-opt conversation, and they create a hostile environment where no one wants to contribute," Shotwell said. She is also SpaceX's chief operating officer. Interrupting others stifles innovation and stops people solving difficult problems, Shotwell said. "In short, the best way to find solutions to hard problems is to listen harder, not talk louder," she said. "Embrace the ideas of your fellow workers, especially when they differ greatly from yours." https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-president-gywnne-shotwell-no-asshole-policy-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-president-gywnne-shot...
    - toomanyrichies 4y ago
      > And in the context of SpaceX, how exactly has he been "an asshole"? Why does it matter whether his actions are in the context of SpaceX? He is associated with his companies (and vice-versa) to a greater extent than probably any other current head of business. Separating Musk from his companies in the minds of the public would be an exercise in futility, and his personal branding and thirst for public attention seem designed to encourage this. Therefore, every public action he takes has an effect on each of his companies, including SpaceX, regardless of whether said action took place "in the context of" those companies. With that said, here are some of Musk's "greatest hits": 1. The tweet comparing Bill Gates to the pregnant man emoji [1] 2. referring to the guy who rescued the Thai cave divers as a "pedo" [2] 3. committing securities fraud [3] 4. tweeting that he'd start a STEM school called Texas Institute of Technology & Science (aka TITS) in an industry already rife with casual sexism [4] 5. implying that Tesla employees would lose their stock options if they unionized [5] 6. branding Tesla's driver assist technology as "autonomous", implying it requires no human intervention and therefore meets the criteria for full self-driving. [6] The above actions range from needlessly trollish to outright illegal. One could argue that you don't build multiple billion-dollar companies without being an asshole to some of the people some of the time, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that these are not the actions of an asshole. 1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517707521343082496 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517707521343082496 2. https://time.com/5339219/elon-musk-diver-thai-soccer-team-pedo/ https://time.com/5339219/elon-musk-diver-thai-soccer-team-pe... 3. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/elon-musk-appeals-ruling-that-upheld-securities-fraud-settlement/articleshow/92260013.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/elon-mu... 4. https://qz.com/work/2082746/elon-musks-tweet-captures-everyday-sexism-faced-by-women-in-stem/ https://qz.com/work/2082746/elon-musks-tweet-captures-everyd... 5. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998454539941367808 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998454539941367808 6. https://screenshot-media.com/technology/ai/tesla-autopilot-unsafe/ https://screenshot-media.com/technology/ai/tesla-autopilot-u...
- mempko 4y ago
  Because people died fighting for democracy in politics. Yet we accept complete authority when it comes to our private lives. Ridiculous.
- kgran 4y ago
  Well, you could say the same about all dictatorships, whether organizations or countries: if you don't like it, leave it (unless you can't, e. g. North Korea). But I think this argument is flawed, to say the least. After all, an employment contract (and labour law in general) acts both ways - it's not a subordination of an employee to an employer.
- trs8080 4y ago
  "His organization"? Does SpaceX not partially pay employees in stock options / RSUs? How about other shareholders?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

bko 4y ago

It's his organization. Why is that so hard to understand? The leader and some person working there are not the same. If I hired a cleaner and she started posting publicly how shitty my interior design, I would fire this person. It's not what you pay her to do. I would argue it was a good move. Like I said, its a distraction and completely out of line. Imagine you were managing someone and they think its okay to arbitrarily go above your head and call you out publicly. This is incredibly toxic and not a person living in the real world.

toomanyrichies 4y ago
Technically, the organization belongs to a group of shareholders, of which Musk is one. And apparently, Musk is now a minority owner.[1] And as chairman and CEO, Musk has a fiduciary duty to the other owners to act in the best interests of the company. I would argue that he failing to abide by that directive by failing to apply the "no assholes" policy to himself (along with the other points the letter makes), thereby harming recruitment and branding efforts. Also, you're comparing complaints about the company's double standards with a cleaner complaining about shitty interior design? Do you really think those two things are equivalent? 1. https://wccftech.com/elon-musk-now-owns-less-than-half-of-spacexs-shares-reveal-filings/ https://wccftech.com/elon-musk-now-owns-less-than-half-of-sp...
- LouisSayers 4y ago
  And in the context of SpaceX, how exactly has he been "an asshole"? People don't have to like him, but it doesn't seem he's actually done anything other than make people work hard at their jobs...
  - trs8080 4y ago
    SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell on Monday said the aerospace company's "no a--hole" work policy ensures everyone is heard and creates space for staff to propose big ideas. "At SpaceX, we have a 'no a--hole' policy," Shotwell said in a virtual speech to graduates in Northwestern University's 2021 commencement ceremony. "These kinds of people — a--holes — interrupt others, they shut down or co-opt conversation, and they create a hostile environment where no one wants to contribute," Shotwell said. She is also SpaceX's chief operating officer. Interrupting others stifles innovation and stops people solving difficult problems, Shotwell said. "In short, the best way to find solutions to hard problems is to listen harder, not talk louder," she said. "Embrace the ideas of your fellow workers, especially when they differ greatly from yours." https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-president-gywnne-shotwell-no-asshole-policy-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-president-gywnne-shot...
  - toomanyrichies 4y ago
    > And in the context of SpaceX, how exactly has he been "an asshole"? Why does it matter whether his actions are in the context of SpaceX? He is associated with his companies (and vice-versa) to a greater extent than probably any other current head of business. Separating Musk from his companies in the minds of the public would be an exercise in futility, and his personal branding and thirst for public attention seem designed to encourage this. Therefore, every public action he takes has an effect on each of his companies, including SpaceX, regardless of whether said action took place "in the context of" those companies. With that said, here are some of Musk's "greatest hits": 1. The tweet comparing Bill Gates to the pregnant man emoji [1] 2. referring to the guy who rescued the Thai cave divers as a "pedo" [2] 3. committing securities fraud [3] 4. tweeting that he'd start a STEM school called Texas Institute of Technology & Science (aka TITS) in an industry already rife with casual sexism [4] 5. implying that Tesla employees would lose their stock options if they unionized [5] 6. branding Tesla's driver assist technology as "autonomous", implying it requires no human intervention and therefore meets the criteria for full self-driving. [6] The above actions range from needlessly trollish to outright illegal. One could argue that you don't build multiple billion-dollar companies without being an asshole to some of the people some of the time, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that these are not the actions of an asshole. 1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517707521343082496 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1517707521343082496 2. https://time.com/5339219/elon-musk-diver-thai-soccer-team-pedo/ https://time.com/5339219/elon-musk-diver-thai-soccer-team-pe... 3. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/elon-musk-appeals-ruling-that-upheld-securities-fraud-settlement/articleshow/92260013.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/elon-mu... 4. https://qz.com/work/2082746/elon-musks-tweet-captures-everyday-sexism-faced-by-women-in-stem/ https://qz.com/work/2082746/elon-musks-tweet-captures-everyd... 5. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998454539941367808 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998454539941367808 6. https://screenshot-media.com/technology/ai/tesla-autopilot-unsafe/ https://screenshot-media.com/technology/ai/tesla-autopilot-u...
mempko 4y ago
Because people died fighting for democracy in politics. Yet we accept complete authority when it comes to our private lives. Ridiculous.
kgran 4y ago
Well, you could say the same about all dictatorships, whether organizations or countries: if you don't like it, leave it (unless you can't, e. g. North Korea). But I think this argument is flawed, to say the least. After all, an employment contract (and labour law in general) acts both ways - it's not a subordination of an employee to an employer.
trs8080 4y ago
"His organization"? Does SpaceX not partially pay employees in stock options / RSUs? How about other shareholders?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]