7 ms·

I can't imagine trashing my CEO and expecting to keep my job. Maybe that's a Gen-X thing?

JaimeThompson 4y ago
Maybe they actually believed his statements regarding unlimited free speech. It's not backed by evidence but SpaceX does attract dreamers.
- mft_ 4y ago
  I don’t think any definition of free speech guarantees total freedom from repercussions?
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    Isn't that the definition of free speech that Musk wants for Twitter?
    - psyc 4y ago
      The purpose of Twitter is speech. People like Musk argue it is analogous to a public space. Twitter users don't work for Twitter and are not subordinates of Twitter. Do you also imagine that Musk believes service people ought to be allowed to mock their superior officers to their faces without repercussions?
      - mywittyname 4y ago
        Musk got someone fired from a job because they once worked for the SEC. So I imagine Musk believes anyone who causes him displeasure, in any form, even by association, should be put in their place by measures including, and up to, loss of livelihood. I'm not so sure he gives a damn about anyone in the military, unless they run afoul of the ideas presented in previous statement.
        tannhauser23 4y ago
        That lawyer INVESTIGATED Musk. I don't think Musk behaved very well in that situation, but if you are a law firm and you rely on Musk's companies for business, maybe don't hire a government lawyer who went after him?
        JaimeThompson 4y ago
        The government lawyer didn't go after him, the government did.
      - efsavage 4y ago
        The purpose of Twitter is money, not speech. Speech is their product, and as a private company, they're allowed to decide what products they sell.
    - mft_ 4y ago
      Maybe freedom from Twitter censoring you, but not freedom from repercussions from what you said (or tweeted). That’s ultimately determined by e.g. the courts and (as in this case) employers.
  - Bud 4y ago
    Actually, about half of the political spectrum of the US believes (or steadfastly pretends to believe) that this is precisely what "free speech" means. I guess they haven't processed the famous XKCD on this issue.
    - nsxwolf 4y ago
      I would bet real money the fired employees have shared that particular XKCD comic a lot.
- psyc 4y ago
  The other thread is full of this nonsense. You give the impression that you believe that free speech absolutists think you ought to be allowed to walk up to your CEO and tell him to go fuck himself, without retaliation. What other things would you have us believe that free speech absolutists would allow? Catcalling coworkers, perhaps? Threatening to murder someone's children? No, you just want to snipe at Musk, and you see this is a way to do it.
  - JaimeThompson 4y ago
    His actions show that he considers calling someone a child molester to be acceptable speech so it isn't too much to think that much more polite speech he would not have an issue with.
    - jdminhbg 4y ago
      That person was not a boss or coworker, he was a stranger who had insulted him. It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania and inability to step back and objectively consider any situation.
      - magicalist 4y ago
        > It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania He's a perpetually online guy, it was bound to happen. If he shut up every now and then it would help. If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world and then proudly announce them to universal acclaim, he could probably go back to the widely enjoyed persona of a year or two ago where the only die hard haters were Boeing stock holders. > objectively consider any situation hHaha, ok, I look forward to the objective discussion of the relative merits of calling someone a "pedo". Super objective!
        mindslight 4y ago
        > If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world This isn't at the root of what we're discussing here. That would be like applying Postel's law to natural language, confirmed by your own experience of receiving maybe a few passing "death threats" per month while bantering, while brushing aside the predicament of someone who receives ongoing death threats from a persistent stalker. Rather, this topic just seems to be basic hypocrisy. If one cannot stomach a critique written in good faith to make one's company better, it's utterly disingenuous to invoke appeals to free speech elsewhere.
- Qem 4y ago
  He means soviet-style free speech. People were free to share opinions. The party was free to book them a ticket to the nearest gulag.
- nsxwolf 4y ago
  I would expect the sorts of employees that would write a letter like that are more of the "free speech for me, not for thee" types.
3327 4y ago
garg 4y ago
Would your CEO behave like Musk and expect zero consequences and zero push-back from the the board, the public, and the employees?
- nsxwolf 4y ago
  If it bothered me that much I'd look for a different job.
  - TheBigSalad 4y ago
    And that's the problem here. They would have ended up looking for different jobs anyway. Others will leave too. The only people working there will be other assholes.
- scollet 4y ago
  So acting like an infant.
swatcoder 4y ago
Maybe the current “thing” is to recognize what happens after getting fired and learn to exploit it: outrage PR, podcast and media spots, outreach by like minded people with other opportunities, etc It’s a different time.
rhino369 4y ago
I think its more of a later millennial and Gen-Z thing. Gen-X was more--call out "the man" and then taking being fired as a badge of pride Gen-Z wants to call people out without repercussions.
- lanstin 4y ago
  Amazing how harmful trashing educational and economic opportunities was for democracy. We could always get jobs with benefits and almost enough money for a house and family. They can’t.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    The trouble makers amongst Gen-Z are mostly the privileged college educated ones. The working poor aren't too tired from being exploited to engage in this stuff.
    - scollet 4y ago
      Nice propaganda.
- trs8080 4y ago
  Gen-X is middle management at these companies. That generation has never been a martyr for ANY cause - isn't Gen-X's whole "thing" that they're all nihilists and nothing matters etc etc? People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    Gen-X when they were young were sort of anti-conformist and anti-corporate. "Selling out" was the biggest insult. You see it reflected in the popular media of the time--like Office Space and Matrix. But in order to have financial success and raise families they "sold out" and went to work for the man. >People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists. Depends what you mean by calling out because must of current call out culture is toxic garbage. I think successful organizations need to encourage questioning decisions. But questioning isn't the same thing as loudly criticizing in a public manner.
Blikkentrekker 4y ago
It's a “living in any developed and most non-developed nations that aren't the U.S.A.”-thing. Courts in the E.U. would not look kindly upon being fired in retaliation for criticizing the public behavior of one's employer.
oittaa 4y ago
> Maybe that's a Gen-X thing? I'd guess not. We (gen x) grew before social media wokeism and have an understanding that thrashing your company or boss publicly isn't the smartest move. I bet these are some entitled zoomers right out of a college.
scollet 4y ago
Maybe you just have no self respect?

Maybe they actually believed his statements regarding unlimited free speech. It's not backed by evidence but SpaceX does attract dreamers.

mft_ 4y ago
I don’t think any definition of free speech guarantees total freedom from repercussions?
- jcranmer 4y ago
  Isn't that the definition of free speech that Musk wants for Twitter?
  - psyc 4y ago
    The purpose of Twitter is speech. People like Musk argue it is analogous to a public space. Twitter users don't work for Twitter and are not subordinates of Twitter. Do you also imagine that Musk believes service people ought to be allowed to mock their superior officers to their faces without repercussions?
    - mywittyname 4y ago
      Musk got someone fired from a job because they once worked for the SEC. So I imagine Musk believes anyone who causes him displeasure, in any form, even by association, should be put in their place by measures including, and up to, loss of livelihood. I'm not so sure he gives a damn about anyone in the military, unless they run afoul of the ideas presented in previous statement.
      - tannhauser23 4y ago
        That lawyer INVESTIGATED Musk. I don't think Musk behaved very well in that situation, but if you are a law firm and you rely on Musk's companies for business, maybe don't hire a government lawyer who went after him?
        JaimeThompson 4y ago
        The government lawyer didn't go after him, the government did.
    - efsavage 4y ago
      The purpose of Twitter is money, not speech. Speech is their product, and as a private company, they're allowed to decide what products they sell.
  - mft_ 4y ago
    Maybe freedom from Twitter censoring you, but not freedom from repercussions from what you said (or tweeted). That’s ultimately determined by e.g. the courts and (as in this case) employers.
- Bud 4y ago
  Actually, about half of the political spectrum of the US believes (or steadfastly pretends to believe) that this is precisely what "free speech" means. I guess they haven't processed the famous XKCD on this issue.
  - nsxwolf 4y ago
    I would bet real money the fired employees have shared that particular XKCD comic a lot.
psyc 4y ago
The other thread is full of this nonsense. You give the impression that you believe that free speech absolutists think you ought to be allowed to walk up to your CEO and tell him to go fuck himself, without retaliation. What other things would you have us believe that free speech absolutists would allow? Catcalling coworkers, perhaps? Threatening to murder someone's children? No, you just want to snipe at Musk, and you see this is a way to do it.
- JaimeThompson 4y ago
  His actions show that he considers calling someone a child molester to be acceptable speech so it isn't too much to think that much more polite speech he would not have an issue with.
  - jdminhbg 4y ago
    That person was not a boss or coworker, he was a stranger who had insulted him. It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania and inability to step back and objectively consider any situation.
    - magicalist 4y ago
      > It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania He's a perpetually online guy, it was bound to happen. If he shut up every now and then it would help. If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world and then proudly announce them to universal acclaim, he could probably go back to the widely enjoyed persona of a year or two ago where the only die hard haters were Boeing stock holders. > objectively consider any situation hHaha, ok, I look forward to the objective discussion of the relative merits of calling someone a "pedo". Super objective!
      - mindslight 4y ago
        > If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world This isn't at the root of what we're discussing here. That would be like applying Postel's law to natural language, confirmed by your own experience of receiving maybe a few passing "death threats" per month while bantering, while brushing aside the predicament of someone who receives ongoing death threats from a persistent stalker. Rather, this topic just seems to be basic hypocrisy. If one cannot stomach a critique written in good faith to make one's company better, it's utterly disingenuous to invoke appeals to free speech elsewhere.
Qem 4y ago
He means soviet-style free speech. People were free to share opinions. The party was free to book them a ticket to the nearest gulag.
nsxwolf 4y ago
I would expect the sorts of employees that would write a letter like that are more of the "free speech for me, not for thee" types.

3327 4y ago

garg 4y ago

Would your CEO behave like Musk and expect zero consequences and zero push-back from the the board, the public, and the employees?

nsxwolf 4y ago
If it bothered me that much I'd look for a different job.
- TheBigSalad 4y ago
  And that's the problem here. They would have ended up looking for different jobs anyway. Others will leave too. The only people working there will be other assholes.
scollet 4y ago
So acting like an infant.

swatcoder 4y ago

Maybe the current “thing” is to recognize what happens after getting fired and learn to exploit it: outrage PR, podcast and media spots, outreach by like minded people with other opportunities, etc It’s a different time.

rhino369 4y ago

I think its more of a later millennial and Gen-Z thing. Gen-X was more--call out "the man" and then taking being fired as a badge of pride Gen-Z wants to call people out without repercussions.

lanstin 4y ago
Amazing how harmful trashing educational and economic opportunities was for democracy. We could always get jobs with benefits and almost enough money for a house and family. They can’t.
- rhino369 4y ago
  The trouble makers amongst Gen-Z are mostly the privileged college educated ones. The working poor aren't too tired from being exploited to engage in this stuff.
  - scollet 4y ago
    Nice propaganda.
trs8080 4y ago
Gen-X is middle management at these companies. That generation has never been a martyr for ANY cause - isn't Gen-X's whole "thing" that they're all nihilists and nothing matters etc etc? People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists.
- rhino369 4y ago
  Gen-X when they were young were sort of anti-conformist and anti-corporate. "Selling out" was the biggest insult. You see it reflected in the popular media of the time--like Office Space and Matrix. But in order to have financial success and raise families they "sold out" and went to work for the man. >People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists. Depends what you mean by calling out because must of current call out culture is toxic garbage. I think successful organizations need to encourage questioning decisions. But questioning isn't the same thing as loudly criticizing in a public manner.

Blikkentrekker 4y ago

It's a “living in any developed and most non-developed nations that aren't the U.S.A.”-thing. Courts in the E.U. would not look kindly upon being fired in retaliation for criticizing the public behavior of one's employer.

oittaa 4y ago

> Maybe that's a Gen-X thing? I'd guess not. We (gen x) grew before social media wokeism and have an understanding that thrashing your company or boss publicly isn't the smartest move. I bet these are some entitled zoomers right out of a college.

scollet 4y ago

Maybe you just have no self respect?