7 ms·

It used to be social decorum to not talk about politics and religion at work. But the past 10 years everyone wants to be an activist now. I'd like to see more r

It used to be social decorum to not talk about politics and religion at work. But the past 10 years everyone wants to be an activist now. I'd like to see more rules around this in every company. It kills productivity and really distracts from the company goals.

guerrilla 4y ago
> It used to be social decorum to not talk about politics and religion at work. And who benefited from that? Not talking about it is politics. You cannot avoid that. It's literally impossible.
- whatevenisthat 4y ago
  It is not politics to avoid talking about politics and religion. Stop imposing your personal view onto others and leave people alone. Work is work. Most of us work for the check and try to work on cool projects and keep the politics and religion for private discourse with people at home or at the pub.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    - whatevenisthat 4y ago
      Nope. Keep your religion to yourself please and thank you. Define it however you want, but most people see through the bs strong arm tactic to try to force people to engage in this shit, and don’t want it.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        whatevenisthat 4y ago
        Accurate according to you
    - rifty 4y ago
      Not talking about politics specifically at work (which is the scope they were addressing of which is pretty concretely indicated two sentences later with "work is work") does not mean they never talk about politics at other times in their life. Also not talking about politics doesn't mean not engaging with politics at all. One could still be listening, thinking and voting which means not simply embracing the status quo despite not talking about it readily.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
    - lol_u_cuck 4y ago
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        lol_u_cuck 4y ago
  - widjit 4y ago
    your refusal to understand politics will not make politics go away
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      This is coercion and it does the exact opposite of convincing others. Making people understand one's politics is surefire way to get the opposite result. Also, if someone does that to me, the first thing that comes to mind is "Fuck off". Unapologetically. Not a good way to convince people.
      - widjit 4y ago
    - lol_u_cuck 4y ago
      - widjit 4y ago
- srj 4y ago
  While your point around tacit acceptance is a good one I don't know if it follows that it's productive/appropriate to inject this debate into all of these situations. For one, the exact issues you care about could be very different from someone else's and having all these discussions is pretty distracting. The method in this case, writing an open letter, seems like a way to weaponize network effect and have an outsized influence over say simply talking to your manager or using an internal feedback system. I think SpaceX is right to say this causes social pressure internally to sign on and not be on the wrong side of the "if you're not with us you're against us" attitudes of politics today.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    > I don't know if it follows that it's productive/appropriate to inject this debate into all of these situations. Hard to disagree with that. > the exact issues you care about could be very different from someone else's and having all these discussions is pretty distracting. Definitely, which is part of why women and minorities get ignored and hence exploited when the status quo is embraced. > weaponize God I'm so tired of people's exaggerations. Nonsense.
    - srj 4y ago
      No, internal channels can accomplish these things as well. Or political initiatives and lawsuits. Saying that the only choices are a larger open letter type airing, or else an exploitation of minorities, that's a false dichotomy and the tired exaggeration.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sergiotapia 4y ago
  Holy shit have academics done a number on this country and it's youth.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dhritzkiv 4y ago
    > country and it's youth its *
  - scollet 4y ago
- dubswithus 4y ago
  Some people are so desperate to force their views on others. It is exhausting. How would you feel if you asked me about a hot button issue important to you at work and I declined to talk about it. Would you approach HR?
  - guerrilla 4y ago
- zthrowaway 4y ago
  > Not talking about it is politics. You cannot avoid that. It's literally impossible. No it's not. Trying to change society is politics. What you're saying is akin to "silence is violence" which is just as ridiculous.
  - widjit 4y ago
    when you are part of a dominant social group this can indeed seem to be the case
  - scollet 4y ago
    So you are actively violent is what you are saying.
- barrysteve 4y ago
  Not talking about cars is talking about having no car, and walking everywhere. You cannot avoid that. Well, no. Not talking about something, is nothingness, silence, an absence of speech. I can demand that void of speech be filled with literally anything. At some point common sense kicks in and you realize that talking to your wife about the colour of her favourite mug, is not politics. You realize, deciding what bread to eat for breakfast hasn't been calculated on how many votes Ron Paul got in the last primary, or whatever. Making politics everything and making everything about politics, turns it into a religion. It isn't one, it's not a cosmology, and it'll never satisfy as a 'theory of everything'. Politics is one category out of many. It's just a method of wrangling everybody's desires together for the purpose of governance. That's it. It's got nothing to do with coding up a widget for some factory and it's economic aim to serve the entire population with quality mugs at a cheaper price.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    - barrysteve 4y ago
      I can disagree with the current policy and not say anything about it. Most of the time actions speak louder than words. A lot of people mentally tune out political 'hot air'. Focusing on making a better company and getting better paid can generate more effective political outcomes for you than dying on every single hill. You can't win every debate.
  - widjit 4y ago
    this is literalist, black and white thinking that is one of the foundations of fascism if there is a social conflict (and boy are there social conflicts), not talking about those social problems is tacit support for the dominant position. pretending that one's work life can be neatly compartmentalized and has no bearing on the rest of the world is a fantasy of those who value their own comfort over the well being of others
sagarm 4y ago
It's common for companies or their leadership to take a public partisan stance via speech or donations. Why are we surprised when employees then want to talk politics?
scollet 4y ago
How many crosses did you burn this week?

guerrilla 4y ago

> It used to be social decorum to not talk about politics and religion at work. And who benefited from that? Not talking about it is politics. You cannot avoid that. It's literally impossible.

whatevenisthat 4y ago
It is not politics to avoid talking about politics and religion. Stop imposing your personal view onto others and leave people alone. Work is work. Most of us work for the check and try to work on cool projects and keep the politics and religion for private discourse with people at home or at the pub.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  - whatevenisthat 4y ago
    Nope. Keep your religion to yourself please and thank you. Define it however you want, but most people see through the bs strong arm tactic to try to force people to engage in this shit, and don’t want it.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      - whatevenisthat 4y ago
        Accurate according to you
  - rifty 4y ago
    Not talking about politics specifically at work (which is the scope they were addressing of which is pretty concretely indicated two sentences later with "work is work") does not mean they never talk about politics at other times in their life. Also not talking about politics doesn't mean not engaging with politics at all. One could still be listening, thinking and voting which means not simply embracing the status quo despite not talking about it readily.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
  - lol_u_cuck 4y ago
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - lol_u_cuck 4y ago
- widjit 4y ago
  your refusal to understand politics will not make politics go away
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    This is coercion and it does the exact opposite of convincing others. Making people understand one's politics is surefire way to get the opposite result. Also, if someone does that to me, the first thing that comes to mind is "Fuck off". Unapologetically. Not a good way to convince people.
    - widjit 4y ago
  - lol_u_cuck 4y ago
    - widjit 4y ago
srj 4y ago
While your point around tacit acceptance is a good one I don't know if it follows that it's productive/appropriate to inject this debate into all of these situations. For one, the exact issues you care about could be very different from someone else's and having all these discussions is pretty distracting. The method in this case, writing an open letter, seems like a way to weaponize network effect and have an outsized influence over say simply talking to your manager or using an internal feedback system. I think SpaceX is right to say this causes social pressure internally to sign on and not be on the wrong side of the "if you're not with us you're against us" attitudes of politics today.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  > I don't know if it follows that it's productive/appropriate to inject this debate into all of these situations. Hard to disagree with that. > the exact issues you care about could be very different from someone else's and having all these discussions is pretty distracting. Definitely, which is part of why women and minorities get ignored and hence exploited when the status quo is embraced. > weaponize God I'm so tired of people's exaggerations. Nonsense.
  - srj 4y ago
    No, internal channels can accomplish these things as well. Or political initiatives and lawsuits. Saying that the only choices are a larger open letter type airing, or else an exploitation of minorities, that's a false dichotomy and the tired exaggeration.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sergiotapia 4y ago
Holy shit have academics done a number on this country and it's youth.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dhritzkiv 4y ago
  > country and it's youth its *
- scollet 4y ago
dubswithus 4y ago
Some people are so desperate to force their views on others. It is exhausting. How would you feel if you asked me about a hot button issue important to you at work and I declined to talk about it. Would you approach HR?
- guerrilla 4y ago
zthrowaway 4y ago
> Not talking about it is politics. You cannot avoid that. It's literally impossible. No it's not. Trying to change society is politics. What you're saying is akin to "silence is violence" which is just as ridiculous.
- widjit 4y ago
  when you are part of a dominant social group this can indeed seem to be the case
- scollet 4y ago
  So you are actively violent is what you are saying.
barrysteve 4y ago
Not talking about cars is talking about having no car, and walking everywhere. You cannot avoid that. Well, no. Not talking about something, is nothingness, silence, an absence of speech. I can demand that void of speech be filled with literally anything. At some point common sense kicks in and you realize that talking to your wife about the colour of her favourite mug, is not politics. You realize, deciding what bread to eat for breakfast hasn't been calculated on how many votes Ron Paul got in the last primary, or whatever. Making politics everything and making everything about politics, turns it into a religion. It isn't one, it's not a cosmology, and it'll never satisfy as a 'theory of everything'. Politics is one category out of many. It's just a method of wrangling everybody's desires together for the purpose of governance. That's it. It's got nothing to do with coding up a widget for some factory and it's economic aim to serve the entire population with quality mugs at a cheaper price.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  - barrysteve 4y ago
    I can disagree with the current policy and not say anything about it. Most of the time actions speak louder than words. A lot of people mentally tune out political 'hot air'. Focusing on making a better company and getting better paid can generate more effective political outcomes for you than dying on every single hill. You can't win every debate.
- widjit 4y ago
  this is literalist, black and white thinking that is one of the foundations of fascism if there is a social conflict (and boy are there social conflicts), not talking about those social problems is tacit support for the dominant position. pretending that one's work life can be neatly compartmentalized and has no bearing on the rest of the world is a fantasy of those who value their own comfort over the well being of others

sagarm 4y ago

It's common for companies or their leadership to take a public partisan stance via speech or donations. Why are we surprised when employees then want to talk politics?

scollet 4y ago

How many crosses did you burn this week?