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[flagged]

by _dqna 4y ago

[flagged]

throwaway894345 4y ago
> The left wants to help people, no matter who they are, and that means supporting both immigration and livable wages I'm not saying otherwise, I'm observing that in this particular case, mass immigration has a wage suppressing effect which contradicts the "livable wages" goal. Noting the challenge doesn't imply ignobility. > the right only cares about the rich and themselves I really don't know what this has to do with the subject.
0daystock 4y ago
- sophacles 4y ago
  I see you get the entirety of your understanding of history and poltics from an actor with alzheimer's. Maybe you could expand your sources a bit to see that this is a lot less true than you imply.
  - 0daystock 4y ago
    If an ad hominem attack is all you can muster in response, it doesn't show a good faith attempt at discourse.
    - scollet 4y ago
- the_only_law 4y ago
  Boy they "helped" a lot of people during his time.
nxm 4y ago
Counterpoint: right wants free market so that wages rises organically through businesses competing for workers, while the left wants open borders and endless government spending that leads of inflation and lower standard of living which we are experiencing now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
junofan 4y ago
Well Jeff Bezos wants to help people by supporting mass immigration as his father benefited from “grit, determination, and the support and kindness of people here in the U.S.,” but perhaps there is somebody more opportunistic and less altruistic than Jeff Bezos who might try to take advantage of such policies? Such a person may even lie about their motives.
giardini 4y ago
PKop 4y ago
It's zero sum. You're hurting your fellow citizens by diluting their labor. You may think this is a righteous position, but from the perspective of a nationalist, you are strictly harming not helping your fellow countrymen, and therefore you set yourself up as their enemy. >only cares about And the prosperity of their own country. It is "selfish" yes. But a selfishness that extends out to their kin and their neighbors. They recognize the world is an arena of competition for scarce resources and power, and so they fight for their community and country to be as prosperous and powerful as possible, because they know foreign nations will do the same for their own people. See: "Ideological differences in the expanse of the moral circle" [0], specifically Figure 5: Heatmaps indicating highest moral allocation by ideology [1] for a nice visualization of the difference between the moral allocation of right vs left. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0?fbclid=IwAR1SsgxyxudFNXSC_2qFquICYUM4xsWHEIVtzAfdCdss0g5QR8b0u8AxwhI https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0?fbclid=Iw... [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0/figures/5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0/figures/5
- 8note 4y ago
  I don't think it is zero sum? Increasing the amount of people means more resource usage, but also more chances for innovation and economies of scale. Much power in Trump's trade war came from the size of the consumer base
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  > "You're hurting your fellow citizens by diluting their labor" No more so than having children and growing the population that way, which is a concept the right generally supports ("family values", "pro life"). > "you are strictly harming not helping your fellow countrymen" It's not like the right do things to help fellow countrymen; taking away rights ("pro choice"), scorning single mothers instead of helping them and their children, demonizing social welfare users as 'welfare queens', opposing 'free' healthcare, oppising livable wages, remove unions and removing the bargaining power workers would need to have good wages otherwise, worsening education and making it less accessible and more expensive. The society their actions move towards is one where wealthy people live off the back of a working class who grind for money and die when they aren't productive anymore, along with a militarised police force acting to keeps the poors in line, and a 'justice' system which lets the rich away without punishment. And you can see it in action when Texas power fails and Ted Cruz takes his family on holiday, or the needlessly cruel treatment the UK Conservative Party's Department for Work and Pensions does to disabled people. Nationalism isn't "help fellow citizens", it's "given a region drawn on a map, inside good, outside bad".
HideousKojima 4y ago
scarface74 4y ago
“I want to both increase the supply of labor and increase the price of labor”. You don’t see anything wrong with that statement?

[flagged]

by _dqna 4y ago

[flagged]

> The left wants to help people, no matter who they are, and that means supporting both immigration and livable wages I'm not saying otherwise, I'm observing that in this particular case, mass immigration has a wage suppressing effect which contradicts the "livable wages" goal. Noting the challenge doesn't imply ignobility. > the right only cares about the rich and themselves I really don't know what this has to do with the subject.

0daystock 4y ago

sophacles 4y ago
I see you get the entirety of your understanding of history and poltics from an actor with alzheimer's. Maybe you could expand your sources a bit to see that this is a lot less true than you imply.
- 0daystock 4y ago
  If an ad hominem attack is all you can muster in response, it doesn't show a good faith attempt at discourse.
  - scollet 4y ago
the_only_law 4y ago
Boy they "helped" a lot of people during his time.

nxm 4y ago

Counterpoint: right wants free market so that wages rises organically through businesses competing for workers, while the left wants open borders and endless government spending that leads of inflation and lower standard of living which we are experiencing now.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

junofan 4y ago

Well Jeff Bezos wants to help people by supporting mass immigration as his father benefited from “grit, determination, and the support and kindness of people here in the U.S.,” but perhaps there is somebody more opportunistic and less altruistic than Jeff Bezos who might try to take advantage of such policies? Such a person may even lie about their motives.

giardini 4y ago

PKop 4y ago

It's zero sum. You're hurting your fellow citizens by diluting their labor. You may think this is a righteous position, but from the perspective of a nationalist, you are strictly harming not helping your fellow countrymen, and therefore you set yourself up as their enemy. >only cares about And the prosperity of their own country. It is "selfish" yes. But a selfishness that extends out to their kin and their neighbors. They recognize the world is an arena of competition for scarce resources and power, and so they fight for their community and country to be as prosperous and powerful as possible, because they know foreign nations will do the same for their own people. See: "Ideological differences in the expanse of the moral circle" [0], specifically Figure 5: Heatmaps indicating highest moral allocation by ideology [1] for a nice visualization of the difference between the moral allocation of right vs left. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0?fbclid=IwAR1SsgxyxudFNXSC_2qFquICYUM4xsWHEIVtzAfdCdss0g5QR8b0u8AxwhI https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0?fbclid=Iw... [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0/figures/5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0/figures/5

8note 4y ago
I don't think it is zero sum? Increasing the amount of people means more resource usage, but also more chances for innovation and economies of scale. Much power in Trump's trade war came from the size of the consumer base
jodrellblank 4y ago
> "You're hurting your fellow citizens by diluting their labor" No more so than having children and growing the population that way, which is a concept the right generally supports ("family values", "pro life"). > "you are strictly harming not helping your fellow countrymen" It's not like the right do things to help fellow countrymen; taking away rights ("pro choice"), scorning single mothers instead of helping them and their children, demonizing social welfare users as 'welfare queens', opposing 'free' healthcare, oppising livable wages, remove unions and removing the bargaining power workers would need to have good wages otherwise, worsening education and making it less accessible and more expensive. The society their actions move towards is one where wealthy people live off the back of a working class who grind for money and die when they aren't productive anymore, along with a militarised police force acting to keeps the poors in line, and a 'justice' system which lets the rich away without punishment. And you can see it in action when Texas power fails and Ted Cruz takes his family on holiday, or the needlessly cruel treatment the UK Conservative Party's Department for Work and Pensions does to disabled people. Nationalism isn't "help fellow citizens", it's "given a region drawn on a map, inside good, outside bad".

HideousKojima 4y ago

scarface74 4y ago

“I want to both increase the supply of labor and increase the price of labor”. You don’t see anything wrong with that statement?