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How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning

How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning in private jets, and love SUVs and large limousines like there's no tomorrow? How do you prove that carbon output is responsible for climate warming? Assuming you win your case what do Big Oil pay you with? Assuming you win and they cease energy production to eliminate future liabilities where do you obtain your energy from? I asked a question on climate change preparation a few days ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 and all I got was crickets.

mahogany 4y ago
> How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning in private jets, and love SUVs and large limousines like there's no tomorrow? Who are the "biggest proponents of global warming theory" in your estimation? Celebrities? Activists? Climate scientists? It seems to me that the people running Sue Big Oil are pretty big proponents of seeking cultural change around climate change. Are they flying private jets?
- vfclists 4y ago
  > Who are the "biggest proponents of global warming theory" in your estimation? Celebrities? Activists? Climate scientists? The Davos and WEF gang? COPD https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-...
aftbit 4y ago
Ok I'll bite: >How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning in private jets, and love SUVs and large limousines like there's no tomorrow? Data. If the climate is warming, it is warming regardless of whether or not the people who are advocating for change are being responsible. Ad hominim attacks against people who hold a position really have no bearing on the truth of the position. >How do you prove that carbon output is responsible for climate warming? IMHO, it is impossible to prove causality in such a complex system. At best you can show a strong correlation, which the data does. >Assuming you win your case what do Big Oil pay you with? Money. They have a lot. >Assuming you win and they cease energy production to eliminate future liabilities where do you obtain your energy from? Solar and wind could cover a substantial fraction of our needs. It will not be an immediate switch, regardless of what people might want either way. For example, barring a giant battery breakthrough, aviation will likely be fossil fueled for quite a while longer. Rocketry is even worse. We need to figure out either substantially more grid-scale storage OR a super-conducting grid in order to match demand to supply. Otherwise, how do you heat your house on a cold, still winter night? >I asked a question on climate change preparation a few days ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 and all I got was crickets. Well you got 3 replies. Just like this one, that felt a bit like a leading question, so likely people did not want to engage. I recommend reading "Carbon-Free, Nuclear-Free" from IEER[1]. It provides an interesting discussion of what would need to happen for the energy sector to go 0-CO2 without nuclear power. It's surprisingly feasible in terms of society scale projects. 1: https://carnegieendowment.org/files/CarbonFreeNuclearFree.pdf https://carnegieendowment.org/files/CarbonFreeNuclearFree.pd...
QuadmasterXLII 4y ago
To your first point: Person A follows the philosophy “If another person is good and they say X, then I will believe X.” Person A can be manipulated through some difficulty. A bad actor has to convince person A that they are actually good, and then they can mislead them. Person B follows the philosophy “If another person is bad and they say X, then I will believe !X.” Person B is trivially easy to manipulate. A bad actor pushing Y just has to say !Y then act like an asshole on twitter.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences This what i call the caveman technique of debating. The other day on sky news: 'we should insulate houses to reduce fuel consumption. > have you insulated your house? > no, i don't own a house > aha, got you!

mahogany 4y ago

> How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning in private jets, and love SUVs and large limousines like there's no tomorrow? Who are the "biggest proponents of global warming theory" in your estimation? Celebrities? Activists? Climate scientists? It seems to me that the people running Sue Big Oil are pretty big proponents of seeking cultural change around climate change. Are they flying private jets?

vfclists 4y ago
> Who are the "biggest proponents of global warming theory" in your estimation? Celebrities? Activists? Climate scientists? The Davos and WEF gang? COPD https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-...

aftbit 4y ago

Ok I'll bite: >How do you convince people about carbon based climate warming when the biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences to discuss global warning in private jets, and love SUVs and large limousines like there's no tomorrow? Data. If the climate is warming, it is warming regardless of whether or not the people who are advocating for change are being responsible. Ad hominim attacks against people who hold a position really have no bearing on the truth of the position. >How do you prove that carbon output is responsible for climate warming? IMHO, it is impossible to prove causality in such a complex system. At best you can show a strong correlation, which the data does. >Assuming you win your case what do Big Oil pay you with? Money. They have a lot. >Assuming you win and they cease energy production to eliminate future liabilities where do you obtain your energy from? Solar and wind could cover a substantial fraction of our needs. It will not be an immediate switch, regardless of what people might want either way. For example, barring a giant battery breakthrough, aviation will likely be fossil fueled for quite a while longer. Rocketry is even worse. We need to figure out either substantially more grid-scale storage OR a super-conducting grid in order to match demand to supply. Otherwise, how do you heat your house on a cold, still winter night? >I asked a question on climate change preparation a few days ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31756033 and all I got was crickets. Well you got 3 replies. Just like this one, that felt a bit like a leading question, so likely people did not want to engage. I recommend reading "Carbon-Free, Nuclear-Free" from IEER[1]. It provides an interesting discussion of what would need to happen for the energy sector to go 0-CO2 without nuclear power. It's surprisingly feasible in terms of society scale projects. 1: https://carnegieendowment.org/files/CarbonFreeNuclearFree.pdf https://carnegieendowment.org/files/CarbonFreeNuclearFree.pd...

QuadmasterXLII 4y ago

To your first point: Person A follows the philosophy “If another person is good and they say X, then I will believe X.” Person A can be manipulated through some difficulty. A bad actor has to convince person A that they are actually good, and then they can mislead them. Person B follows the philosophy “If another person is bad and they say X, then I will believe !X.” Person B is trivially easy to manipulate. A bad actor pushing Y just has to say !Y then act like an asshole on twitter.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> biggest proponents of global warming theory fly to conferences This what i call the caveman technique of debating. The other day on sky news: 'we should insulate houses to reduce fuel consumption. > have you insulated your house? > no, i don't own a house > aha, got you!