4 ms·

This is really ground breaking stuff. You mean to tell me that instead of enjoying my friends and family and experiencing all that life has to offer, I can simp

by cgarvey 15y ago

This is really ground breaking stuff. You mean to tell me that instead of enjoying my friends and family and experiencing all that life has to offer, I can simply work on my Web app? Whoa. Seriously though, why sacrifice so much for a mere 'side-project'? Either get a better/bigger idea and make IT your full-time work, or find a 40hr./week job that is fulfilling to you. There is no other side project that will be as rewarding in the end as living your life freely with your family and friends. This is the last thing you should be sacrificing.

viscanti 15y ago
You're making the mistake of assuming your values are universally held by everyone else. They aren't. Some people really enjoy building something, even if that means not spending as much time with family/friends. Different people have different values/priorities and are in different parts of their lives (i.e someone with kids spends significantly more time with their kids than someone without kids). You seem to be implying that the only value someone could get out of building something is a full time job. That's not true at all. There's value in learning and getting better at building things. There's value in enjoying what you do and taking pride in building something you're proud of, even if it never makes a dollar.
- trebor 15y ago
  And you imply that there isn't value in having friends and family, spending time with your spouse and kids. When a person has a spouse and kids they have responsibilities to their family. Not everyone has your values either. As someone who has just taken his first employment, I've only been self-employed up to this point, I've found that even a 40 hour work week is restrictive. I'm still used to spending time with my family when work is low, or when I need to distance myself from a problem to properly think about it. I can't even lean into the other room now and ask, "Hey, anyone else want a cup of tea?" on my weekdays now. I've fallen straight into schedule hell because I am a morning person, and now my only real time to "do things" with friends and family is in the evening... when I want/need to get some sleep. You might call it selfish if you like, but how selfish is it to > There's value in learning and getting better at building things. There's value in enjoying what you do and taking pride in building something you're proud of, even if it never makes a dollar. at the cost of your friends and family? Especially your family! Too many kids grow up without parents because their parents are selfish workaholics. Just because the values aren't held universally doesn't make them invalid. Sometimes, what is held universally is the worst thing you could possibly hold. You might grab an electric fence and feel okay, but who are you touching that's getting shocked in your stead?
  - viscanti 15y ago
    The only thing I'm implying is that different people have different values/priorities. My post explicitly states that some people have more family obligations than others. That said, friends and family isn't a specific obligation for a set number of hours, that if you get in 30 less minutes one week it all blows up. It's a continuum of possible activities. Everyone needs to make their own choice. It seems silly to criticize someone else for doing a "side project", by implying that it must always be at the cost of friends and family. It's not.
dholowiski 15y ago
I find it interesting that you react so strongly to this. Is it your belief that everybody should be working a 40 hour work week, and spending the rest of the time with their family? If so I suspect you're in the minority on HN.
- cgarvey 15y ago
  My issue was mainly with this line: "But if you're not willing to sacrifice everything, then why are you even here?" I feel like this mentality is being bred in the startup culture solely for the benefit of companies with very little thought given to the potential impact it can have on someone's life. Working 40 hours a week you probably have ~30-35% of your life free to do with as you please (after sleep, work, commute, etc.). I'll let you do the math from there when you work 60-80 hours. We don't get enough sleep. We don't get enough vacation time. We don't have enough time to recover. I feel that humans need balance in their lives. Balance will provide fresh perspective and allow you to continue being good at what you do. You have to "stop and smell the roses" as they say. I also feel like today's society is out of balance. I feel like 40 hours is the most anyone should ever have to work. I feel like even that is too much. Unfortunately it's necessary in today's society. Mostly because a lot of what we develop and create doesn't actually allow us to work less. Usually it just makes a couple dudes rich.

by cgarvey 15y ago

viscanti 15y ago

You're making the mistake of assuming your values are universally held by everyone else. They aren't. Some people really enjoy building something, even if that means not spending as much time with family/friends. Different people have different values/priorities and are in different parts of their lives (i.e someone with kids spends significantly more time with their kids than someone without kids). You seem to be implying that the only value someone could get out of building something is a full time job. That's not true at all. There's value in learning and getting better at building things. There's value in enjoying what you do and taking pride in building something you're proud of, even if it never makes a dollar.

trebor 15y ago
And you imply that there isn't value in having friends and family, spending time with your spouse and kids. When a person has a spouse and kids they have responsibilities to their family. Not everyone has your values either. As someone who has just taken his first employment, I've only been self-employed up to this point, I've found that even a 40 hour work week is restrictive. I'm still used to spending time with my family when work is low, or when I need to distance myself from a problem to properly think about it. I can't even lean into the other room now and ask, "Hey, anyone else want a cup of tea?" on my weekdays now. I've fallen straight into schedule hell because I am a morning person, and now my only real time to "do things" with friends and family is in the evening... when I want/need to get some sleep. You might call it selfish if you like, but how selfish is it to > There's value in learning and getting better at building things. There's value in enjoying what you do and taking pride in building something you're proud of, even if it never makes a dollar. at the cost of your friends and family? Especially your family! Too many kids grow up without parents because their parents are selfish workaholics. Just because the values aren't held universally doesn't make them invalid. Sometimes, what is held universally is the worst thing you could possibly hold. You might grab an electric fence and feel okay, but who are you touching that's getting shocked in your stead?
- viscanti 15y ago
  The only thing I'm implying is that different people have different values/priorities. My post explicitly states that some people have more family obligations than others. That said, friends and family isn't a specific obligation for a set number of hours, that if you get in 30 less minutes one week it all blows up. It's a continuum of possible activities. Everyone needs to make their own choice. It seems silly to criticize someone else for doing a "side project", by implying that it must always be at the cost of friends and family. It's not.

dholowiski 15y ago

I find it interesting that you react so strongly to this. Is it your belief that everybody should be working a 40 hour work week, and spending the rest of the time with their family? If so I suspect you're in the minority on HN.

cgarvey 15y ago
My issue was mainly with this line: "But if you're not willing to sacrifice everything, then why are you even here?" I feel like this mentality is being bred in the startup culture solely for the benefit of companies with very little thought given to the potential impact it can have on someone's life. Working 40 hours a week you probably have ~30-35% of your life free to do with as you please (after sleep, work, commute, etc.). I'll let you do the math from there when you work 60-80 hours. We don't get enough sleep. We don't get enough vacation time. We don't have enough time to recover. I feel that humans need balance in their lives. Balance will provide fresh perspective and allow you to continue being good at what you do. You have to "stop and smell the roses" as they say. I also feel like today's society is out of balance. I feel like 40 hours is the most anyone should ever have to work. I feel like even that is too much. Unfortunately it's necessary in today's society. Mostly because a lot of what we develop and create doesn't actually allow us to work less. Usually it just makes a couple dudes rich.