6 ms·

Where has the left gone off the deep end other than in Tucker's lunatic and manipulative ravings? Please give us concrete examples, yes woke politics might have

by kmos17 4y ago

Where has the left gone off the deep end other than in Tucker's lunatic and manipulative ravings? Please give us concrete examples, yes woke politics might have gone overboard for many's tastes but where has that had any real impact on day to day life? In the mean time the right has gone full throttle on an anti-democracy cult following of a single person's unproven and clearly false claims of election fraud, and taken the country on a very dark path that is in direct opposition to our constitution, the rule of law and our way of life.

t0mmyb0y 4y ago
yanderekko 4y ago
Look at any time series on polling regarding political hatred - the left has been largely ineffectual at enacting crazy policy, but the demonization and willingness to punish people for views that are well within the Overton window of public opinion has increased dramatically in recent years, eg. adopting and defending the views of Barack Obama on gay marriage in 2012 will lead to your swiftly being deplatformed from Twitter, Reddit, etc. This impacts my day to day life in the sense that I am no longer able to express many reasonable, non-hateful views in many parts of the internet being censored and putting my livelihood at risk. If you think that this isn't really an impediment that I should care about, then I don't see how you could lament these SpaceX employees being unable to publicly excoriate their bosses without consequence. For many of us, seeing what happened to people like James Damore was a turning point that something had deeply changed in the political culture.
- epistasis 4y ago
  So one issue I see here is that you are against gay marriage? This isn't "the left" it's "the US" that had a change of view. The poll numbers are through the roof. And when it's such a personal thing with the very families that are our friends, it's not hard to see why gay marriage is so popular. That you feel "hated" by others for rejecting their friends families is a weird way to put it. Obama was a centrist for his time, and often times after society opens up to more people it's hard to go back to closing it off to our new members. As for James Damore, somebody disparaging their colleagues, publicly, and not even their leader for specific actions, but an entire gender, based on bad reading of biology... do you have similar sympathy for the people fired here, or it only when somebody is expressing beliefs that are hurtful to those not at the top? Gay marriage was a major shift in culture, but bad sexism has been out of vogue for decades, even if overall sexism hasn't decreased a huge amount. I have all sorts of politically unacceptable views that I don't share. But I don't play the victim for being "hated" just because I don't get my way.
  - yanderekko 4y ago
    I'm not against gay marriage. I'm using it as an example. But you're really illustrating my point here, by arguing not that there hasn't been a shift but that the growing hatred and intolerance is in fact a good thing. I feel like this is a more honest position than pretending that prevailing attitudes haven't shifted. As a personal example, last week I had a comment deleted on Reddit for being "hatred" because I described drag as a form of kink. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but this kind of banal censorship has become a regular experience for anyone who offers any sort of resistance to woke narratives. If you think this is a good change, then I disagree but at least acknowledging that there's been a change puts us in the same reality.
    - epistasis 4y ago
      I've had comments incorrectly deleted in Reddit but I didn't think of it as political persecution. Same on Twitter. A lot. And if it were political persecution, which it very well could be, Reddit is moderated by absolute randoms from the internet. Starting new subreddits and moderating to one's one preferences is very literal free speech.
      - yanderekko 4y ago
        >I've had comments incorrectly deleted in Reddit but I didn't think of it as political persecution. Please. We know that this isn't considered as "incorrect" by the people doing the deleting, and that a well-reasoned appeal would be productive. This isn't happening due to simple randomness, as basically anyone who pushes back against woke narratives will attest - for example, openly endorsing JK Rowling's views on gender will get you banned from most of Reddit and quite possibly fired from your job if you do it under your real name on Twitter. This wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. Again, you're free to say that this is a good change, or just wave all this concerns away with pithy slogans like "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences", but I'm just trying to establish that there's been a shift on the left and it seems like you don't disagree with this.
        4y ago
goalieca 4y ago
I hate to dove into another country politics on the open internet. But I’ll bite as simile things are happening in canada which ended up with Ontario conservatives dominating the provincial election. The left needs to pay attention to every day issues. It’s not that the right has answers but they have acknowledged these issues as being the main issues. For instance, it should be absolutely not shocking to anyone that inflation has happened and is a direct result of our fiscal policies. Well, some did not seem to be concerned about printing money to buy bonds to fund record deficits which actually paid people and companies to reduce productivity and output. Surprise! School closures are another huge issue. Most of us with children saw the massive harms from keeping them home. It was absolutely devastating! I could go on. The left NDP party of Ontario admitted they focused too much on the chatter-class (Reddit, Twitter, journalists, etc) and not the working class

by kmos17 4y ago

t0mmyb0y 4y ago

yanderekko 4y ago

Look at any time series on polling regarding political hatred - the left has been largely ineffectual at enacting crazy policy, but the demonization and willingness to punish people for views that are well within the Overton window of public opinion has increased dramatically in recent years, eg. adopting and defending the views of Barack Obama on gay marriage in 2012 will lead to your swiftly being deplatformed from Twitter, Reddit, etc. This impacts my day to day life in the sense that I am no longer able to express many reasonable, non-hateful views in many parts of the internet being censored and putting my livelihood at risk. If you think that this isn't really an impediment that I should care about, then I don't see how you could lament these SpaceX employees being unable to publicly excoriate their bosses without consequence. For many of us, seeing what happened to people like James Damore was a turning point that something had deeply changed in the political culture.

epistasis 4y ago
So one issue I see here is that you are against gay marriage? This isn't "the left" it's "the US" that had a change of view. The poll numbers are through the roof. And when it's such a personal thing with the very families that are our friends, it's not hard to see why gay marriage is so popular. That you feel "hated" by others for rejecting their friends families is a weird way to put it. Obama was a centrist for his time, and often times after society opens up to more people it's hard to go back to closing it off to our new members. As for James Damore, somebody disparaging their colleagues, publicly, and not even their leader for specific actions, but an entire gender, based on bad reading of biology... do you have similar sympathy for the people fired here, or it only when somebody is expressing beliefs that are hurtful to those not at the top? Gay marriage was a major shift in culture, but bad sexism has been out of vogue for decades, even if overall sexism hasn't decreased a huge amount. I have all sorts of politically unacceptable views that I don't share. But I don't play the victim for being "hated" just because I don't get my way.
- yanderekko 4y ago
  I'm not against gay marriage. I'm using it as an example. But you're really illustrating my point here, by arguing not that there hasn't been a shift but that the growing hatred and intolerance is in fact a good thing. I feel like this is a more honest position than pretending that prevailing attitudes haven't shifted. As a personal example, last week I had a comment deleted on Reddit for being "hatred" because I described drag as a form of kink. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but this kind of banal censorship has become a regular experience for anyone who offers any sort of resistance to woke narratives. If you think this is a good change, then I disagree but at least acknowledging that there's been a change puts us in the same reality.
  - epistasis 4y ago
    I've had comments incorrectly deleted in Reddit but I didn't think of it as political persecution. Same on Twitter. A lot. And if it were political persecution, which it very well could be, Reddit is moderated by absolute randoms from the internet. Starting new subreddits and moderating to one's one preferences is very literal free speech.
    - yanderekko 4y ago
      >I've had comments incorrectly deleted in Reddit but I didn't think of it as political persecution. Please. We know that this isn't considered as "incorrect" by the people doing the deleting, and that a well-reasoned appeal would be productive. This isn't happening due to simple randomness, as basically anyone who pushes back against woke narratives will attest - for example, openly endorsing JK Rowling's views on gender will get you banned from most of Reddit and quite possibly fired from your job if you do it under your real name on Twitter. This wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. Again, you're free to say that this is a good change, or just wave all this concerns away with pithy slogans like "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences", but I'm just trying to establish that there's been a shift on the left and it seems like you don't disagree with this.
      - 4y ago

goalieca 4y ago

I hate to dove into another country politics on the open internet. But I’ll bite as simile things are happening in canada which ended up with Ontario conservatives dominating the provincial election. The left needs to pay attention to every day issues. It’s not that the right has answers but they have acknowledged these issues as being the main issues. For instance, it should be absolutely not shocking to anyone that inflation has happened and is a direct result of our fiscal policies. Well, some did not seem to be concerned about printing money to buy bonds to fund record deficits which actually paid people and companies to reduce productivity and output. Surprise! School closures are another huge issue. Most of us with children saw the massive harms from keeping them home. It was absolutely devastating! I could go on. The left NDP party of Ontario admitted they focused too much on the chatter-class (Reddit, Twitter, journalists, etc) and not the working class