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Eh he comes off as a normal human being to me. Definitely quite awful, but that's also very normal. The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't

Eh he comes off as a normal human being to me. Definitely quite awful, but that's also very normal. The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. There are CEO's who are psychopaths and are much worse then Elon but are much better at keeping their actual persona hidden. Elon is just as awful as the next human being. We tend to have a higher set of expectations for people in Elons position. Very rarely does anyone actually meet these expectations. Most people just pretend to meet this expectation. Elon fails at both meeting the expectations and pretending to meet it.

MPSimmons 4y ago
> The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. It is fascinating to me that you see Elon as not putting on a facade, rather than his public face constantly being a changing facade. As far as I can tell, Elon has two modes: "engineering", which is where he's super awkward and, as far as I can tell, totally and completely honest, if optimistic on capabilities and timeframes, and "public", which is where he's totally erratic and populist. His twitter persona is almost totally public. Nothing is serious, everything is flippant, and his opinions sway with the breeze, or on the basis of who he feels slighted him most recently.
- deltaonezero 4y ago
  I guess a better way to put it, is he fails at putting on a facade. He is certainly trying, but he's so bad at it, that he fails. A good analogy is a small child pretending to be an adult.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    Right on. Watch his SNL skit that was supposed to pump dogecoin. His acting is clueless but his nerdiness makes him acceptable to his followers
CBarkleyU 4y ago
This is a fallacy that really irks me. You can't even argue against a statement like that. If Person A acts like a decent human being it's because they're putting on a facade, if Person A acts like a dumpster fire it's because they're not putting on a facade. Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I certainly don't. And I presume most people don't. So there must be sizable amount of human being that another sizable amount of human beings consider good humans. The CEO of the multi-billion dollar company I work for seems and acts like a normal (meaning decent, as opposed to your definition "quite awful") human being. Never goes on rants like Elon, quite worker-friendly, always there to chat, doesn't fire people on the spot because they can't answer a question that he only started verbalizing halfway though his stream of consciousness rants. And we compete in the same industry as Elon. Isn't trying to influence politics with his position on several dozens of matters that have nothing to do with out company. Also doesn't cultivate a cult following with himself as the head of the cult. That's all that matters to me, if there no evidence of him being an awful human being, it would be downright unethical for me to assume that he is an awful human being hiding behind a facade. Also: Before anyone hits me with the "Well your CEO isnt a visionary trying to get us to Mars". Well, yeah. I'd rather be stuck on Earth with him than live under whatever fantasy a sociopath is promising to unfold on Mars.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  >Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I would describe all humans including myself, my circle of friends and everyone I met to have an immense awful side that they cover up. Only when the media focuses on your every movement will these flaws be exposed. I'm not a fan of Elon Musk. But unlike the people who hate him, I don't see anything abnormal other then failure to put on a facade. He's as inconsistent and emotional as any other human being. Keep in mind. What he does, from his perspective appears justified and if you can rationalize from his perspective, you will be able to at least understand how it is justified. Very few people on this earth knowingly act out pure malice.
  - CBarkleyU 4y ago
    > I would describe all humans including myself, my circle of friends and everyone I met to have an immense awful side that they cover up. I don't. Which is why I don't think this discussion will go anywhere. I would never in my life call anyone with an "immense awful side that they're trying to cover up" my friend.

MPSimmons 4y ago

> The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. It is fascinating to me that you see Elon as not putting on a facade, rather than his public face constantly being a changing facade. As far as I can tell, Elon has two modes: "engineering", which is where he's super awkward and, as far as I can tell, totally and completely honest, if optimistic on capabilities and timeframes, and "public", which is where he's totally erratic and populist. His twitter persona is almost totally public. Nothing is serious, everything is flippant, and his opinions sway with the breeze, or on the basis of who he feels slighted him most recently.

deltaonezero 4y ago
I guess a better way to put it, is he fails at putting on a facade. He is certainly trying, but he's so bad at it, that he fails. A good analogy is a small child pretending to be an adult.
- tartoran 4y ago
  Right on. Watch his SNL skit that was supposed to pump dogecoin. His acting is clueless but his nerdiness makes him acceptable to his followers

CBarkleyU 4y ago

This is a fallacy that really irks me. You can't even argue against a statement like that. If Person A acts like a decent human being it's because they're putting on a facade, if Person A acts like a dumpster fire it's because they're not putting on a facade. Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I certainly don't. And I presume most people don't. So there must be sizable amount of human being that another sizable amount of human beings consider good humans. The CEO of the multi-billion dollar company I work for seems and acts like a normal (meaning decent, as opposed to your definition "quite awful") human being. Never goes on rants like Elon, quite worker-friendly, always there to chat, doesn't fire people on the spot because they can't answer a question that he only started verbalizing halfway though his stream of consciousness rants. And we compete in the same industry as Elon. Isn't trying to influence politics with his position on several dozens of matters that have nothing to do with out company. Also doesn't cultivate a cult following with himself as the head of the cult. That's all that matters to me, if there no evidence of him being an awful human being, it would be downright unethical for me to assume that he is an awful human being hiding behind a facade. Also: Before anyone hits me with the "Well your CEO isnt a visionary trying to get us to Mars". Well, yeah. I'd rather be stuck on Earth with him than live under whatever fantasy a sociopath is promising to unfold on Mars.

deltaonefour 4y ago
>Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I would describe all humans including myself, my circle of friends and everyone I met to have an immense awful side that they cover up. Only when the media focuses on your every movement will these flaws be exposed. I'm not a fan of Elon Musk. But unlike the people who hate him, I don't see anything abnormal other then failure to put on a facade. He's as inconsistent and emotional as any other human being. Keep in mind. What he does, from his perspective appears justified and if you can rationalize from his perspective, you will be able to at least understand how it is justified. Very few people on this earth knowingly act out pure malice.
- CBarkleyU 4y ago
  > I would describe all humans including myself, my circle of friends and everyone I met to have an immense awful side that they cover up. I don't. Which is why I don't think this discussion will go anywhere. I would never in my life call anyone with an "immense awful side that they're trying to cover up" my friend.