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I'm really starting to wonder if 2022 won't be looked back as the year that Elon finally jumped the shark. A lot of people (myself included) really respect Spa

by jmyeet 4y ago

I'm really starting to wonder if 2022 won't be looked back as the year that Elon finally jumped the shark. A lot of people (myself included) really respect SpaceX and I think that's the last pillar on which Elon's reputation stands. Tesla honestly isn't that interesting and there's a real chance it gets eaten alive as other car manufacturers have caught up. The Cybertruck is still vaporware whereas the F150 Lightning is real and, from what I've seen at least, very highly regarded. What I think is finally giving people Elon fatigue is his politics. The Twitter acquisition is deeply tied to that. He's just another rich cringe conservative. That's it. Coming out and supporting DeSantis, for example, should surprise literally no one. He has a very thin skin (remember the whole "pedo guy" incident?), inflates his own accomplishments (eg claiming he founded Tesla) and honestly just comes off (now more than ever) as just an awful human being. Stories I've heard seem to reflect that SpaceX and Tesla aren't great places to work (at least compared to big tech companies). I really get the sense that people are increasingly getting sick of hearing from or about him. YMMV.

justrando 4y ago
> I really get the sense that people are increasingly getting sick of hearing from or about him. YMMV. I'm just a rando on the internet so maybe not representative, but this uBlock snippet makes anything related to Twitter or Elon invisible on the Guardian front page. Definitely improved my QoL ##.fc-item__container:has-text(/\bElon\b/) ##.fc-item__container:has-text(/\bTwitter\b/)
- doyouevensunbro 4y ago
  Thank you for this, internet stranger!
martythemaniak 4y ago
Yeah, it's pretty sad. I think what happened is he "crossed the chasm" so to speak and became mainstream. He was famous for his work, which is super interesting and so he was appreciated by a subset of nerds. In the last year or two he bacame famous for his personality, which turned out to be "generic right-wing edge lord". Thing is, there's very few people who can talk in depth about rocket design or actually bring their wild schemes to life and he's one of them. On the other hand, there's a whole spectrum of thousands of celebrity right wing edge lords to choose from if that's your thing and there's absolutely nothing interesting or unique about his take on this.
- lathiat 4y ago
  You nailed that on the head.
bigmattystyles 4y ago
I don't think he jumped the shark, more like the curtain fell down and there was not much there but marketing and crowd-work savvy.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  I think the fame and power has gotten to him. Plus, he spends way too much of his time engaging with people on Twitter. I think his experience on that site has warped his view of the world. It's also amazing to me that someone in his shoes takes time to respond to randos replying to him.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Surprise, CEO's don't actually do a hell of a lot to earn their 100x salary
  - dralley 4y ago
    And he clearly doesn't / didn't get enough sleep for a long time.
- simonh 4y ago
  If only he'd achieved something practical, like revolutionising reusable rocket technology, dominating the commercial satelite launch industry, or selling 75% of the electric cars in the US last year. He may be an arse, but he's a very successful arse that gets stuff done. Doesn't excuse him being an arse though.
  - bigmattystyles 4y ago
    Did he though or did Gwynne Shotwell and the actual engineers? He deserves some credit, but I'm not sure it's quite as much as you think it is.
    - simonh 4y ago
      Gwynne looks after the business, not the Engineering. She's been clear that's Musk's department.
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
> He's just another rich cringe conservative. "Lorde Edge" is outstanding cringe. He's focusing on and making his image intentionally out of cringe. It's utterly bizarre.
mschuster91 4y ago
> A lot of people (myself included) really respect SpaceX and I think that's the last pillar on which Elon's reputation stands. Tesla honestly isn't that interesting and there's a real chance it gets eaten alive as other car manufacturers have caught up. Build quality wise? Definitely, Tesla has a lot of issues there which the established industry has ironed out and perfected over the last hundred years. Other problems? No way in hell the others can catch up. The old guard of automotive manufacturers simply is too stuck in their old ways - they have to manage the expectations of dealerships (as the only service most electric cars need is brake pad changes and Teslas are sold online, their existence is threatened) and suppliers (your average ICE alone takes something around 1000-2000 distinct parts, whereas electric cars need far fewer for the drivetrain), and no automotive manufacturer has anything resembling a history with developing modern software and it shows everywhere.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  You bring up a good point, but I think old school car manufacturers don't believe that directly competing with Tesla is the winning move. If they're smart, I think they'll go for affordability, which is an utterly failed promise of Tesla. Bring down the price of full-electrics and plug-in hybrids, and you've got an audience of buyers that Tesla never took seriously. I for one would love an electric vehicle but in the year 2022 it's still not economical for me to trade in my beater car for even a used plug-in hybrid. When there's a recession, no one's going to give a shit about a car with a bunch of bells and whistles. They want a car that they can afford to buy and afford to drive. In any case, that's what I want.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    You need experience though to bring batteries down to affordable prices - both for yield improvements and for actually figuring out stuff like "how to construct a BMS that keeps batteries somewhat alive?"... Tesla has had well over a decade to fine-tune their entire stack, the only one who can match them in experience is Toyota with the Prius lineup. The second-next is BMW, but the i8 is a niche model for rich show-offs and the i3 is a toy - and BMW hasn't been associated with "affordability" in many decades. The car manufacturers that are associated with attributes like "affordability" don't have much experience with electric vehicles, so they will have to buy that experience or do it the same way Tesla did, which means they will need a decade.
ravenstine 4y ago
> He's just another rich cringe conservative. Cringe, yes, he may be. Conservative? Maybe in the opportunist sense. At most, I think he's much closer to being libertarian and would otherwise be left leaning if the mainstream left hadn't drifted so far left. Elon really wants people to get out of the way of his view of progress. Yes, I'm sure ego is a part of that, but when is it not with anyone? I'm not even sure what Elon would be conserving other than whatever ability he has to launch cars into space or dig pointless tunnels. A better example of a "cringe conservative" would be the My Pillow guy or even Lindsay Graham. And many would of course say Trump.
- manholio 4y ago
  There is no "far left drift" of the mainstream. Outside the gender craze which is real, the "far left drift" is an entirely made up talking point in the conservative war against basic institutions and freedoms. For example, never in its history was the SCOTUS so conservative compared to the views of the general population. It used to be one of the most progressive actors in society, forcing race and gender equality judgments to a country where working wives and interracial couples were still a faux pass.
  - water554 4y ago
    I dunno. I’ve lived in Los Angeles and worked for a few companies in CA where social justice was more important than the product. Also, people seemed to really like socialism despite working at a corporation.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - abduhl 4y ago
    The DEI drift IS the far left drift that moderates and conservatives are talking about.
gfodor 4y ago
- ZetaZero 4y ago
- tyronehed 4y ago
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  I’ve disconnected myself from the contemporary political back and forth, but my outsider take is that it rather seems like the US left has… mostly accomplished little? What sweeping changes or policy platforms have them ‘off the deep end’? This is an honest inquiry.
  - tsunamifury 4y ago
    They don’t have an answer because the modern democrats are the basically republicans of the 90s leaving the GOP with only a lot of complaining and projection as well as anti government theater. It’s sort of a joke but it’s more sad. I used to vote Republican and I would again if anyone there was even half willing to be more considerate and rational.
    - vxNsr 4y ago
      Just so we’re clear, you replied to this person 10 min after their comment posted. You’ve already passed judgment before giving the OP a chance to respond. Discussions here happen over days not minutes. This isn’t a telegram chat. Your comment is in incredibly poor taste.
  - runarberg 4y ago
    This is largely true. The US’s political left gained a ton of traction behind Bernie Sanders. As we know his campaign went nowhere (twice). There are a handful of progressive candidates winning some primaries, but this is abysmal in the larger context. For every progressive that succeeds there is another progressive that fails (see e.g. Nina Turner in Ohio and Jessica Cisneros in Texas). And for every attempt there are 10 non-attempts. And we are even seeing equally many conservative democrats that honestly should belong in the Republican party in the national and state legislators. Outside of partisan politics the left is seeing some more successes, that is in the broader culture war. This includes broader acceptance of LGBTQ+ rights, calls for immigration reforms, calls for reprimands for centuries of slavery, etc. However these successes are not making their way to the legislator by a long shot, and quite often to the contrary (see e.g. reversal of Roe v. Wade). And I say this firmly from the left wing of the political spectrum.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 4y ago
What I think is finally giving people Elon fatigue is his politics. I don't care about Mr. Musk's politics. But I dumped all of my Tesla stock recently because of his increasingly erratic behavior. To me, it demonstrates an inability to make wise decisions. And I can't trust my money to people who can no longer reliably make wise decisions. He's impulsive, and entertaining to watch; but now I will do so from a distance. And so will my money.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  This is actually bad investment strategy. Warren Buffet once made a shit load of money because of this. During a more conservative time... waaay back. A company was doing very well but the CEO had an affair. The public caught wind of the affair and the stock tanked, because people had your exact same philosophy. Those people cared about the behavior of the CEO while ignoring the metrics of the company. Warren Buffet looked at the fundamental performance of the company and saw that it was doing quite well, so he bought it at super low prices. Eventually the stock price changed and began to reflect the fundamentals of the actual business as people forgot about the behavior of the CEO. You shouldn't care about his erratic behavior. You should care about the business sector and the overall performance of the company.
  - joyeuse6701 4y ago
    Interesting point, I suppose the affair didn’t affect the bottom line of the company, but Musk trying to buy twitter and considering how strongly his company’s brands are tied to his personal one are not something to be ignored. I believe they have a tangible effect on the value of the company. So in this case his behavior should be considered.
    - deltaonezero 4y ago
      It has a tangible effect on the short term value of the company. Just like the affair. People all tend to have short term thinking. The price of the stock drops because of behavior, this is real... but it is also opportunity. While you sell, I buy. You lose out. The underlying performance of the company does not change based off of random tweets. If Tesla is good enough to take over the entire automobile industry even the CEO pulling off his pants walking around in public is a separate issue to actual performance.
Hayvok 4y ago
> giving people Elon fatigue is his politics. > I really get the sense that people are increasingly getting sick of hearing from or about him. YMMV. YMMV indeed, because every conservative I talk to is seeing him as a hero who is finally speaking truth to power, and calling B.S. on the establishment (political, corporate HR, academic) narratives that have been running through the culture. They aren’t sick of him at all - they’re cheering him on.
- omnicognate 4y ago
  But are they buying Teslas?
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    Maybe this is a long term play to try to get the people he's catering his message to to start buying electric vehicles?
    - stilist 4y ago
      Or maybe he’s just a jerk.
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Yeah, that's probably the correct answer.
  - mwint 4y ago
    More than you would think. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics...
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    Does it matter? Go try and buy a Tesla and see how long the line is. People are buying teslas and the immediately flipping them for $10k of profit to people who don't want to wait. The demand for teslas right now is insane.
rajin444 4y ago
Is your post implying being conservative is inherently bad? It seems like that’s the unspoken crux of your argument - ie you actually have an issue with a “conservative” (I hesitate to label musk as one) winning the culture war. Conservatives make the same argument about “don’t be political” when liberals are winning. I’m mostly in agreement with what you said, but I don’t think your reasons are coming from a principled place.
- dwringer 4y ago
  For me the weak point in that post is using the phrase "coming out and supporting Desantis" to refer to Elon Musk responding to the questions of if he'd be voting republican ("tbd"), and who he's "leaning towards" ("DeSantis"). That said I think it's a horrible look and DeSantis's response to the matter is one of the most tasteless and tone-deaf things I've heard from him all week. I like this take in The New Yorker[0] [0]https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/elon-musk-announces-purchase-of-ron-desantis https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/elon-musk-an...
  - zthrowaway 4y ago
    Why is supporting a republican a horrible look?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dwringer 4y ago
      I'm neither suggesting that supporting a republican is a horrible look nor that being conservative is bad. Please be careful not to derail this into partisanship.
deltaonefour 4y ago
Eh he comes off as a normal human being to me. Definitely quite awful, but that's also very normal. The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. There are CEO's who are psychopaths and are much worse then Elon but are much better at keeping their actual persona hidden. Elon is just as awful as the next human being. We tend to have a higher set of expectations for people in Elons position. Very rarely does anyone actually meet these expectations. Most people just pretend to meet this expectation. Elon fails at both meeting the expectations and pretending to meet it.
- MPSimmons 4y ago
  > The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. It is fascinating to me that you see Elon as not putting on a facade, rather than his public face constantly being a changing facade. As far as I can tell, Elon has two modes: "engineering", which is where he's super awkward and, as far as I can tell, totally and completely honest, if optimistic on capabilities and timeframes, and "public", which is where he's totally erratic and populist. His twitter persona is almost totally public. Nothing is serious, everything is flippant, and his opinions sway with the breeze, or on the basis of who he feels slighted him most recently.
  - deltaonezero 4y ago
    I guess a better way to put it, is he fails at putting on a facade. He is certainly trying, but he's so bad at it, that he fails. A good analogy is a small child pretending to be an adult.
    - tartoran 4y ago
      Right on. Watch his SNL skit that was supposed to pump dogecoin. His acting is clueless but his nerdiness makes him acceptable to his followers
- CBarkleyU 4y ago
  This is a fallacy that really irks me. You can't even argue against a statement like that. If Person A acts like a decent human being it's because they're putting on a facade, if Person A acts like a dumpster fire it's because they're not putting on a facade. Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I certainly don't. And I presume most people don't. So there must be sizable amount of human being that another sizable amount of human beings consider good humans. The CEO of the multi-billion dollar company I work for seems and acts like a normal (meaning decent, as opposed to your definition "quite awful") human being. Never goes on rants like Elon, quite worker-friendly, always there to chat, doesn't fire people on the spot because they can't answer a question that he only started verbalizing halfway though his stream of consciousness rants. And we compete in the same industry as Elon. Isn't trying to influence politics with his position on several dozens of matters that have nothing to do with out company. Also doesn't cultivate a cult following with himself as the head of the cult. That's all that matters to me, if there no evidence of him being an awful human being, it would be downright unethical for me to assume that he is an awful human being hiding behind a facade. Also: Before anyone hits me with the "Well your CEO isnt a visionary trying to get us to Mars". Well, yeah. I'd rather be stuck on Earth with him than live under whatever fantasy a sociopath is promising to unfold on Mars.
deleted 4y ago
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nerbert 4y ago
I hear that cofounder thing about Tesla every now and then. Doesn't matter when the company was founded, if someone joined before the company finds its market fit, that person is legitimate to be called cofounder imo.
- fullshark 4y ago
  A lawsuit was filed over it wow: https://www.cnet.com/culture/tesla-motors-founders-now-there-are-five/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/tesla-motors-founders-now-there... "On Monday, a Tesla representative said that Eberhard and other principals in the dispute have come to an agreement. The company did not reveal any details of the resolution, except to say that there are now five, rather than two, agreed-upon "founders" of Tesla. In addition to Eberhard, other founders include current CEO and chief product architect Elon Musk, current chief technology JB Straubel, Marc Tarpenning, and Ian Wright."
memish 4y ago
[flagged]
- mountainriver 4y ago
  Yes exactly, Elon isn’t some cringe conservative he’s very middle of the road left leaning but the democrats have gone so tribal that’s now not okay. Most of America shares Elons values you probably just wouldn’t know it with the way the polar ends skew the picture
  - timecube 4y ago
    A left-leaning person would not support Ron DeSantis for president.
    - mountainriver 4y ago
      yeah they would! I'm left leaning and I would consider it right now based on how the liberals are acting!
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    “Most of America shares my values but they’re just too oppressed or exhausted to make their voice heard, I swear.” — everyone
    - mountainriver 4y ago
      Except that the actual data shows that the large majority of people agree on critical issues
- d23 4y ago
  > Grow a spine and push back against the illiberal left. Utterly insane. Black is white, up is down. Multi-level, coordinated conspiracies orchestrated by the sitting President of the United States are the embodiment of liberal democracy.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Given this is HN, I'm just mildly curious about how people who knew Musk 15-20 years ago view him now. I mean, I know this is tangential, but pg had an essay talking about what a bad idea it was that Musk demanded Windows over Linux when Musk ran PayPal - I just got the sense that pg was never a fan. Do folks view this as "this is an ambitious, hardworking genius whose lack of social constraints due to his success is making him run off the rails, mentally" or is it a case of "Musk has always been more asshole than genius, it's just his 'marketing veneer' that is starting to falter." I agree, I've always viewed Musk with a sense of awe and amazement ("How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies??"), now I just want him to STFU because what comes out of his mouth/tweet feed is such incessant verbal diarrhea.
- piva00 4y ago
  > How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies?? An easy way is with... Amphetamines.
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Musk has a security clearance, so he either has a prescription or he's not on illegal drugs.
    - tekno45 4y ago
      you know he smoked weed live right?
      - jvanderbot 4y ago
        Right, clearances are highly individualized, and have very little to do with those lifestyle decisions. They can grant or revoke essentially at will.
      - SSLy 4y ago
        cannabis still isn't prescribe-able in USA?
jeffwask 4y ago
His shady practices around market manipulation are starting to catch up to him. He's facing lawsuits from shareholders for tanking his own stock prices. He slimes his way through every loophole.
phkahler 4y ago
>> I'm really starting to wonder if 2022 won't be looked back as the year that Elon finally jumped the shark. I will be extremely sad if Starship ends up being his Spruce Goose. Yes that's a reference to a former employee talking about him on JRE.

by jmyeet 4y ago

justrando 4y ago

> I really get the sense that people are increasingly getting sick of hearing from or about him. YMMV. I'm just a rando on the internet so maybe not representative, but this uBlock snippet makes anything related to Twitter or Elon invisible on the Guardian front page. Definitely improved my QoL ##.fc-item__container:has-text(/\bElon\b/) ##.fc-item__container:has-text(/\bTwitter\b/)

doyouevensunbro 4y ago
Thank you for this, internet stranger!

martythemaniak 4y ago

Yeah, it's pretty sad. I think what happened is he "crossed the chasm" so to speak and became mainstream. He was famous for his work, which is super interesting and so he was appreciated by a subset of nerds. In the last year or two he bacame famous for his personality, which turned out to be "generic right-wing edge lord". Thing is, there's very few people who can talk in depth about rocket design or actually bring their wild schemes to life and he's one of them. On the other hand, there's a whole spectrum of thousands of celebrity right wing edge lords to choose from if that's your thing and there's absolutely nothing interesting or unique about his take on this.

lathiat 4y ago
You nailed that on the head.

bigmattystyles 4y ago

I don't think he jumped the shark, more like the curtain fell down and there was not much there but marketing and crowd-work savvy.

dntrkv 4y ago
I think the fame and power has gotten to him. Plus, he spends way too much of his time engaging with people on Twitter. I think his experience on that site has warped his view of the world. It's also amazing to me that someone in his shoes takes time to respond to randos replying to him.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Surprise, CEO's don't actually do a hell of a lot to earn their 100x salary
- dralley 4y ago
  And he clearly doesn't / didn't get enough sleep for a long time.
simonh 4y ago
If only he'd achieved something practical, like revolutionising reusable rocket technology, dominating the commercial satelite launch industry, or selling 75% of the electric cars in the US last year. He may be an arse, but he's a very successful arse that gets stuff done. Doesn't excuse him being an arse though.
- bigmattystyles 4y ago
  Did he though or did Gwynne Shotwell and the actual engineers? He deserves some credit, but I'm not sure it's quite as much as you think it is.
  - simonh 4y ago
    Gwynne looks after the business, not the Engineering. She's been clear that's Musk's department.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

> He's just another rich cringe conservative. "Lorde Edge" is outstanding cringe. He's focusing on and making his image intentionally out of cringe. It's utterly bizarre.

mschuster91 4y ago

> A lot of people (myself included) really respect SpaceX and I think that's the last pillar on which Elon's reputation stands. Tesla honestly isn't that interesting and there's a real chance it gets eaten alive as other car manufacturers have caught up. Build quality wise? Definitely, Tesla has a lot of issues there which the established industry has ironed out and perfected over the last hundred years. Other problems? No way in hell the others can catch up. The old guard of automotive manufacturers simply is too stuck in their old ways - they have to manage the expectations of dealerships (as the only service most electric cars need is brake pad changes and Teslas are sold online, their existence is threatened) and suppliers (your average ICE alone takes something around 1000-2000 distinct parts, whereas electric cars need far fewer for the drivetrain), and no automotive manufacturer has anything resembling a history with developing modern software and it shows everywhere.

ravenstine 4y ago
You bring up a good point, but I think old school car manufacturers don't believe that directly competing with Tesla is the winning move. If they're smart, I think they'll go for affordability, which is an utterly failed promise of Tesla. Bring down the price of full-electrics and plug-in hybrids, and you've got an audience of buyers that Tesla never took seriously. I for one would love an electric vehicle but in the year 2022 it's still not economical for me to trade in my beater car for even a used plug-in hybrid. When there's a recession, no one's going to give a shit about a car with a bunch of bells and whistles. They want a car that they can afford to buy and afford to drive. In any case, that's what I want.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  You need experience though to bring batteries down to affordable prices - both for yield improvements and for actually figuring out stuff like "how to construct a BMS that keeps batteries somewhat alive?"... Tesla has had well over a decade to fine-tune their entire stack, the only one who can match them in experience is Toyota with the Prius lineup. The second-next is BMW, but the i8 is a niche model for rich show-offs and the i3 is a toy - and BMW hasn't been associated with "affordability" in many decades. The car manufacturers that are associated with attributes like "affordability" don't have much experience with electric vehicles, so they will have to buy that experience or do it the same way Tesla did, which means they will need a decade.

ravenstine 4y ago

> He's just another rich cringe conservative. Cringe, yes, he may be. Conservative? Maybe in the opportunist sense. At most, I think he's much closer to being libertarian and would otherwise be left leaning if the mainstream left hadn't drifted so far left. Elon really wants people to get out of the way of his view of progress. Yes, I'm sure ego is a part of that, but when is it not with anyone? I'm not even sure what Elon would be conserving other than whatever ability he has to launch cars into space or dig pointless tunnels. A better example of a "cringe conservative" would be the My Pillow guy or even Lindsay Graham. And many would of course say Trump.

manholio 4y ago
There is no "far left drift" of the mainstream. Outside the gender craze which is real, the "far left drift" is an entirely made up talking point in the conservative war against basic institutions and freedoms. For example, never in its history was the SCOTUS so conservative compared to the views of the general population. It used to be one of the most progressive actors in society, forcing race and gender equality judgments to a country where working wives and interracial couples were still a faux pass.
- water554 4y ago
  I dunno. I’ve lived in Los Angeles and worked for a few companies in CA where social justice was more important than the product. Also, people seemed to really like socialism despite working at a corporation.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- abduhl 4y ago
  The DEI drift IS the far left drift that moderates and conservatives are talking about.

gfodor 4y ago

ZetaZero 4y ago
tyronehed 4y ago
germinalphrase 4y ago
I’ve disconnected myself from the contemporary political back and forth, but my outsider take is that it rather seems like the US left has… mostly accomplished little? What sweeping changes or policy platforms have them ‘off the deep end’? This is an honest inquiry.
- tsunamifury 4y ago
  They don’t have an answer because the modern democrats are the basically republicans of the 90s leaving the GOP with only a lot of complaining and projection as well as anti government theater. It’s sort of a joke but it’s more sad. I used to vote Republican and I would again if anyone there was even half willing to be more considerate and rational.
  - vxNsr 4y ago
    Just so we’re clear, you replied to this person 10 min after their comment posted. You’ve already passed judgment before giving the OP a chance to respond. Discussions here happen over days not minutes. This isn’t a telegram chat. Your comment is in incredibly poor taste.
- runarberg 4y ago
  This is largely true. The US’s political left gained a ton of traction behind Bernie Sanders. As we know his campaign went nowhere (twice). There are a handful of progressive candidates winning some primaries, but this is abysmal in the larger context. For every progressive that succeeds there is another progressive that fails (see e.g. Nina Turner in Ohio and Jessica Cisneros in Texas). And for every attempt there are 10 non-attempts. And we are even seeing equally many conservative democrats that honestly should belong in the Republican party in the national and state legislators. Outside of partisan politics the left is seeing some more successes, that is in the broader culture war. This includes broader acceptance of LGBTQ+ rights, calls for immigration reforms, calls for reprimands for centuries of slavery, etc. However these successes are not making their way to the legislator by a long shot, and quite often to the contrary (see e.g. reversal of Roe v. Wade). And I say this firmly from the left wing of the political spectrum.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

reaperducer 4y ago

What I think is finally giving people Elon fatigue is his politics. I don't care about Mr. Musk's politics. But I dumped all of my Tesla stock recently because of his increasingly erratic behavior. To me, it demonstrates an inability to make wise decisions. And I can't trust my money to people who can no longer reliably make wise decisions. He's impulsive, and entertaining to watch; but now I will do so from a distance. And so will my money.

deltaonefour 4y ago
This is actually bad investment strategy. Warren Buffet once made a shit load of money because of this. During a more conservative time... waaay back. A company was doing very well but the CEO had an affair. The public caught wind of the affair and the stock tanked, because people had your exact same philosophy. Those people cared about the behavior of the CEO while ignoring the metrics of the company. Warren Buffet looked at the fundamental performance of the company and saw that it was doing quite well, so he bought it at super low prices. Eventually the stock price changed and began to reflect the fundamentals of the actual business as people forgot about the behavior of the CEO. You shouldn't care about his erratic behavior. You should care about the business sector and the overall performance of the company.
- joyeuse6701 4y ago
  Interesting point, I suppose the affair didn’t affect the bottom line of the company, but Musk trying to buy twitter and considering how strongly his company’s brands are tied to his personal one are not something to be ignored. I believe they have a tangible effect on the value of the company. So in this case his behavior should be considered.
  - deltaonezero 4y ago
    It has a tangible effect on the short term value of the company. Just like the affair. People all tend to have short term thinking. The price of the stock drops because of behavior, this is real... but it is also opportunity. While you sell, I buy. You lose out. The underlying performance of the company does not change based off of random tweets. If Tesla is good enough to take over the entire automobile industry even the CEO pulling off his pants walking around in public is a separate issue to actual performance.

Hayvok 4y ago

> giving people Elon fatigue is his politics. > I really get the sense that people are increasingly getting sick of hearing from or about him. YMMV. YMMV indeed, because every conservative I talk to is seeing him as a hero who is finally speaking truth to power, and calling B.S. on the establishment (political, corporate HR, academic) narratives that have been running through the culture. They aren’t sick of him at all - they’re cheering him on.

omnicognate 4y ago
But are they buying Teslas?
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  Maybe this is a long term play to try to get the people he's catering his message to to start buying electric vehicles?
  - stilist 4y ago
    Or maybe he’s just a jerk.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      Yeah, that's probably the correct answer.
- mwint 4y ago
  More than you would think. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics...
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Does it matter? Go try and buy a Tesla and see how long the line is. People are buying teslas and the immediately flipping them for $10k of profit to people who don't want to wait. The demand for teslas right now is insane.

rajin444 4y ago

Is your post implying being conservative is inherently bad? It seems like that’s the unspoken crux of your argument - ie you actually have an issue with a “conservative” (I hesitate to label musk as one) winning the culture war. Conservatives make the same argument about “don’t be political” when liberals are winning. I’m mostly in agreement with what you said, but I don’t think your reasons are coming from a principled place.

dwringer 4y ago
For me the weak point in that post is using the phrase "coming out and supporting Desantis" to refer to Elon Musk responding to the questions of if he'd be voting republican ("tbd"), and who he's "leaning towards" ("DeSantis"). That said I think it's a horrible look and DeSantis's response to the matter is one of the most tasteless and tone-deaf things I've heard from him all week. I like this take in The New Yorker[0] [0]https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/elon-musk-announces-purchase-of-ron-desantis https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/elon-musk-an...
- zthrowaway 4y ago
  Why is supporting a republican a horrible look?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dwringer 4y ago
    I'm neither suggesting that supporting a republican is a horrible look nor that being conservative is bad. Please be careful not to derail this into partisanship.

deltaonefour 4y ago

Eh he comes off as a normal human being to me. Definitely quite awful, but that's also very normal. The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. There are CEO's who are psychopaths and are much worse then Elon but are much better at keeping their actual persona hidden. Elon is just as awful as the next human being. We tend to have a higher set of expectations for people in Elons position. Very rarely does anyone actually meet these expectations. Most people just pretend to meet this expectation. Elon fails at both meeting the expectations and pretending to meet it.

MPSimmons 4y ago
> The difference between Elon and others is that Elon doesn't put on as big of a facade. It is fascinating to me that you see Elon as not putting on a facade, rather than his public face constantly being a changing facade. As far as I can tell, Elon has two modes: "engineering", which is where he's super awkward and, as far as I can tell, totally and completely honest, if optimistic on capabilities and timeframes, and "public", which is where he's totally erratic and populist. His twitter persona is almost totally public. Nothing is serious, everything is flippant, and his opinions sway with the breeze, or on the basis of who he feels slighted him most recently.
- deltaonezero 4y ago
  I guess a better way to put it, is he fails at putting on a facade. He is certainly trying, but he's so bad at it, that he fails. A good analogy is a small child pretending to be an adult.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    Right on. Watch his SNL skit that was supposed to pump dogecoin. His acting is clueless but his nerdiness makes him acceptable to his followers
CBarkleyU 4y ago
This is a fallacy that really irks me. You can't even argue against a statement like that. If Person A acts like a decent human being it's because they're putting on a facade, if Person A acts like a dumpster fire it's because they're not putting on a facade. Would you describe your inner circle of friends as "quite awful"? I really hope you wouldn't. I certainly don't. And I presume most people don't. So there must be sizable amount of human being that another sizable amount of human beings consider good humans. The CEO of the multi-billion dollar company I work for seems and acts like a normal (meaning decent, as opposed to your definition "quite awful") human being. Never goes on rants like Elon, quite worker-friendly, always there to chat, doesn't fire people on the spot because they can't answer a question that he only started verbalizing halfway though his stream of consciousness rants. And we compete in the same industry as Elon. Isn't trying to influence politics with his position on several dozens of matters that have nothing to do with out company. Also doesn't cultivate a cult following with himself as the head of the cult. That's all that matters to me, if there no evidence of him being an awful human being, it would be downright unethical for me to assume that he is an awful human being hiding behind a facade. Also: Before anyone hits me with the "Well your CEO isnt a visionary trying to get us to Mars". Well, yeah. I'd rather be stuck on Earth with him than live under whatever fantasy a sociopath is promising to unfold on Mars.

deleted 4y ago

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nerbert 4y ago

I hear that cofounder thing about Tesla every now and then. Doesn't matter when the company was founded, if someone joined before the company finds its market fit, that person is legitimate to be called cofounder imo.

fullshark 4y ago
A lawsuit was filed over it wow: https://www.cnet.com/culture/tesla-motors-founders-now-there-are-five/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/tesla-motors-founders-now-there... "On Monday, a Tesla representative said that Eberhard and other principals in the dispute have come to an agreement. The company did not reveal any details of the resolution, except to say that there are now five, rather than two, agreed-upon "founders" of Tesla. In addition to Eberhard, other founders include current CEO and chief product architect Elon Musk, current chief technology JB Straubel, Marc Tarpenning, and Ian Wright."

memish 4y ago

[flagged]

mountainriver 4y ago
Yes exactly, Elon isn’t some cringe conservative he’s very middle of the road left leaning but the democrats have gone so tribal that’s now not okay. Most of America shares Elons values you probably just wouldn’t know it with the way the polar ends skew the picture
- timecube 4y ago
  A left-leaning person would not support Ron DeSantis for president.
  - mountainriver 4y ago
    yeah they would! I'm left leaning and I would consider it right now based on how the liberals are acting!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- swatcoder 4y ago
  “Most of America shares my values but they’re just too oppressed or exhausted to make their voice heard, I swear.” — everyone
  - mountainriver 4y ago
    Except that the actual data shows that the large majority of people agree on critical issues
d23 4y ago
> Grow a spine and push back against the illiberal left. Utterly insane. Black is white, up is down. Multi-level, coordinated conspiracies orchestrated by the sitting President of the United States are the embodiment of liberal democracy.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Given this is HN, I'm just mildly curious about how people who knew Musk 15-20 years ago view him now. I mean, I know this is tangential, but pg had an essay talking about what a bad idea it was that Musk demanded Windows over Linux when Musk ran PayPal - I just got the sense that pg was never a fan. Do folks view this as "this is an ambitious, hardworking genius whose lack of social constraints due to his success is making him run off the rails, mentally" or is it a case of "Musk has always been more asshole than genius, it's just his 'marketing veneer' that is starting to falter." I agree, I've always viewed Musk with a sense of awe and amazement ("How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies??"), now I just want him to STFU because what comes out of his mouth/tweet feed is such incessant verbal diarrhea.

piva00 4y ago
> How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies?? An easy way is with... Amphetamines.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
  Musk has a security clearance, so he either has a prescription or he's not on illegal drugs.
  - tekno45 4y ago
    you know he smoked weed live right?
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Right, clearances are highly individualized, and have very little to do with those lifestyle decisions. They can grant or revoke essentially at will.
    - SSLy 4y ago
      cannabis still isn't prescribe-able in USA?

jeffwask 4y ago

His shady practices around market manipulation are starting to catch up to him. He's facing lawsuits from shareholders for tanking his own stock prices. He slimes his way through every loophole.

phkahler 4y ago

>> I'm really starting to wonder if 2022 won't be looked back as the year that Elon finally jumped the shark. I will be extremely sad if Starship ends up being his Spruce Goose. Yes that's a reference to a former employee talking about him on JRE.