5 ms·

> Why we let this pass, I don't know, but its the reality we're living in. Are you willing to hire armed and trained goons to make them stop their ways and kil

> Why we let this pass, I don't know, but its the reality we're living in. Are you willing to hire armed and trained goons to make them stop their ways and kill, maim and/or kill them? Because they are willing to do the same to get their way. And that's why we let this pass. The so-called "monopoly of force" was not given by a "social contract", as Hobbes postulated - it was taken by them through superior force.

dane-pgp 4y ago
But we can revoke the "monopoly of force" whenever we* want, without violence. That sounds a lot like a "social contract". * For some value of "we" which differs by jurisdiction: https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/ https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  Can you, really? Or are you just replacing the color of their hats, believing that that changes the system?
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > just replacing the color of their hats Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? The only way I can think to steel-man your position is that you're saying "Some unspecified power would intervene to stop a government relinquishing its monopoly on force even if the population overwhelmingly voted for the government to do so". That's hard to imagine though; not because the unspecified power is so vague, but because no country would ever vote like that to remove the protections that a state provides for them.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      in most multi party systems parties cater to the interests and issues of the majority. minority (issue) parties don't have much chance to even get enough votes.
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      > Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? In the context of my parent's comment: "Government trying to legislate things that they do not understand", no, there is no distinguishable difference between the Tories, Sinn Fein, the DUP, the LibDems, the SNP or Labour. The Raving Loonies at least have the introspection that they consider themselves incompetent, so ... more power to them, I guess?
bodge5000 4y ago
I meant more in the way that its not even brought up. Take partygate for example, obviously Boris got away with that with pretty much just a slap on the wrist, but at least he had to sweat a bit over it. The fact that politicians can make rulings over things they don't understand in the slightest is bad, the fact that nobody even cares is tragic. (To be clear, I dont consider the fact that he had to "sweat a bit over it" in any way justice, or a sign of a fair society, but at least its something)

dane-pgp 4y ago

But we can revoke the "monopoly of force" whenever we* want, without violence. That sounds a lot like a "social contract". * For some value of "we" which differs by jurisdiction: https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/ https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/

DocTomoe 4y ago
Can you, really? Or are you just replacing the color of their hats, believing that that changes the system?
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > just replacing the color of their hats Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? The only way I can think to steel-man your position is that you're saying "Some unspecified power would intervene to stop a government relinquishing its monopoly on force even if the population overwhelmingly voted for the government to do so". That's hard to imagine though; not because the unspecified power is so vague, but because no country would ever vote like that to remove the protections that a state provides for them.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    in most multi party systems parties cater to the interests and issues of the majority. minority (issue) parties don't have much chance to even get enough votes.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    > Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? In the context of my parent's comment: "Government trying to legislate things that they do not understand", no, there is no distinguishable difference between the Tories, Sinn Fein, the DUP, the LibDems, the SNP or Labour. The Raving Loonies at least have the introspection that they consider themselves incompetent, so ... more power to them, I guess?

bodge5000 4y ago

I meant more in the way that its not even brought up. Take partygate for example, obviously Boris got away with that with pretty much just a slap on the wrist, but at least he had to sweat a bit over it. The fact that politicians can make rulings over things they don't understand in the slightest is bad, the fact that nobody even cares is tragic. (To be clear, I dont consider the fact that he had to "sweat a bit over it" in any way justice, or a sign of a fair society, but at least its something)