6 ms·

Tell HN: I haven't answered a call from Google Ads, this is what happened

59 points by novateg 4y ago

There was a cold call from Google Ads associate, I wasn't available to talk and asked to re-schedule the call, but I couldn't answer the follow up call. Today they suspended all Google my business listings. Anyone had the experience before?

tjbiddle 4y ago
Probably just coincidence. Google over-zealously suspends ad accounts, listings, etc. all the time.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  That's odd. Suspending an ad account means losing revenue; I'd expect them to be very reluctant to do so.
- winternett 4y ago
  Extortion basically... They track clicks on profiles and keep tabs on many businesses undercover. I get tons of junk calls and calls from companies that are obviously trying to market to me or from competitors trying to copy my business methods. It's not really been useful to have a google profile, though it's also essential. The monopoly effect is here, and firmly embedded, they have far too much money for anyone to reliably counter their tactics. Small and medium sized businesses are being squeezed harder than ever by big industry, and by the Internet being shrunken, and everyone wants a piece of your profit now, or you simply don't pass. I make business web sites and apps, but the cost to customers is mostly going towards advertising them now, even more than development budgets. Because of how ads are set up (based on what is trending at each moment), it's also very hard to get the right reach every time with a fixed budget. Because of the gamifying of SEO and search ranking, customers are often upset by fluctuating prices for our work. I don't know what to tell people, but things are getting more complex, and insanely mathematical in order to just make a few bucks. Something has to give, and we've got to start boycotting certain things to remind companies that they are not invincible.
sparrish 4y ago
I've ignored those requests for meetings for decades and never had a problem.
cj 4y ago
We get calls from Google Ads account managers / associates all the time, and the calls are always about enabling/applying all of Google's automatic campaign suggestions (which increase spend, and hypothetically improve performance, although I highly doubt the latter). If I had to guess, missing the call and being suspended may be completely unrelated to each other. I don't think Google ad associate would call you to discuss account issues prior to a ban, but I could be wrong.
- joecot 4y ago
  Relatedly, never, ever do this. "Someone I know" works at a company who hired a guy to help manage their ad accounts, including Adwords. Between Google's account managers and Adword's helpful suggestions for optimizing campaigns, over the course of a month they managed to crater incoming ad traffic, and optimize for spending on cheap keywords that sent junk traffic. Clicking on one of those helpful auto-optimize suggestions can make hundreds of changes, and there's no good revision history to revert changes back.
toss1 4y ago
I haven't been put in that position so I have no data. That said, if you have serious consequences from this, especially financial, it might be worth contacting an attorney, and certainly your US Senators (assuming you live in the US), and the state and/or US Attorney General. This sounds very much like illegal antitrust behavior. Even if your case doesn't go far initially, if they are doing this consistently, enough reports will get them into the kind of hot water this hostile behavior deserves.
- michaelmior 4y ago
  It's not clear that this is hostile behavior. The two incidents could be completely unrelated. I'm inclined to believe that is the case based on the anecdotal evidence of other commenters.
  - toss1 4y ago
    Yes, it's possible that it's a mere coincidence. Yet getting shut off for no reason at all is barely less customer-hostile than getting shut off for failing to respond their "an offer you can't refuse" marketing. If there are substantial financial consequences, then yes, OP was a fool to rely on Google (or any FAANG) for any business need. Nevertheless, while Google surely thinks they have it covered in their contracts, these are adhesion contracts that often do not stand up, and beyond that, most states have Fair Dealing laws which may well have been violated. If allowed to continue this behavior, they will continue and expand it.
ransom1538 4y ago
Depending on your state you may not be able to record the phone call. This is why companies will call when they have bad news and want to explain it. They could write an email - but this could easily be forwarded to any of your favorite blogs and becomes a legal document. A recorded phone call without consent / announcement (in CA anyway) is easy pickings for a lawyer and is an actual crime Cal. Penal Code § 632 (actual jail crime: no shoes, trying to get bail money, lol). At a previous company we knew a phone call from apple was very bad. We got a phone call we would be kicked out of the app store with deadlines. https://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/california/ https://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/california/
- car_analogy 4y ago
  And if you answer the phone with "this call may be recorded" (as corporations always do)?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- failrate 4y ago
  Clarification for most jurisdictions in the US is that it is sufficient to announce that there is recording occurring. They do not necessarily need to orally consent. Continuing the conversation after they have been clearly notified that the call will be recorded is generally sufficient. This is why telemarketing calls inform you that the call will be recorded. Don't want to be recorded? Hang up.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  I always wondered about setting something up where only your side of the conversation is recorded. You'd just need to repeat a lot of what they're saying so its obvious to somebody listening to one side of the conversation what happened but I feel like it'd get around any of these laws because every party is yourself.
  - yccs27 4y ago
gfosco 4y ago
- novateg 4y ago
  No i did not, also I always follow google's business listing guidelines.
jiveturkey 4y ago
Almost certainly a coincidence. Does Google actually call businesses? I have never received such a call. I do, however, receive many calls from scammers claiming to be from Google.
yakak 4y ago
I've seen them keep scheduling new calls where they restart each topic they don't want (or know how?) to answer until someone was frustrated and then close out access to their support for not attending all the meetings. But it didn't seem to affect the account.
austinpena 4y ago
A coworker got an email from a rep saying that if they didn't respond they would "consider suspending direct Google Ads support services for your company" But, most of these reps (unless you're really big/ working with the accelerated growth team etc) are outsourced and don't have any power. Even the ones who aren't outsourced don't have any real power and are essentially sales people.

59 points by novateg 4y ago

tjbiddle 4y ago

Probably just coincidence. Google over-zealously suspends ad accounts, listings, etc. all the time.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
That's odd. Suspending an ad account means losing revenue; I'd expect them to be very reluctant to do so.
winternett 4y ago
Extortion basically... They track clicks on profiles and keep tabs on many businesses undercover. I get tons of junk calls and calls from companies that are obviously trying to market to me or from competitors trying to copy my business methods. It's not really been useful to have a google profile, though it's also essential. The monopoly effect is here, and firmly embedded, they have far too much money for anyone to reliably counter their tactics. Small and medium sized businesses are being squeezed harder than ever by big industry, and by the Internet being shrunken, and everyone wants a piece of your profit now, or you simply don't pass. I make business web sites and apps, but the cost to customers is mostly going towards advertising them now, even more than development budgets. Because of how ads are set up (based on what is trending at each moment), it's also very hard to get the right reach every time with a fixed budget. Because of the gamifying of SEO and search ranking, customers are often upset by fluctuating prices for our work. I don't know what to tell people, but things are getting more complex, and insanely mathematical in order to just make a few bucks. Something has to give, and we've got to start boycotting certain things to remind companies that they are not invincible.

sparrish 4y ago

I've ignored those requests for meetings for decades and never had a problem.

cj 4y ago

We get calls from Google Ads account managers / associates all the time, and the calls are always about enabling/applying all of Google's automatic campaign suggestions (which increase spend, and hypothetically improve performance, although I highly doubt the latter). If I had to guess, missing the call and being suspended may be completely unrelated to each other. I don't think Google ad associate would call you to discuss account issues prior to a ban, but I could be wrong.

joecot 4y ago
Relatedly, never, ever do this. "Someone I know" works at a company who hired a guy to help manage their ad accounts, including Adwords. Between Google's account managers and Adword's helpful suggestions for optimizing campaigns, over the course of a month they managed to crater incoming ad traffic, and optimize for spending on cheap keywords that sent junk traffic. Clicking on one of those helpful auto-optimize suggestions can make hundreds of changes, and there's no good revision history to revert changes back.

toss1 4y ago

I haven't been put in that position so I have no data. That said, if you have serious consequences from this, especially financial, it might be worth contacting an attorney, and certainly your US Senators (assuming you live in the US), and the state and/or US Attorney General. This sounds very much like illegal antitrust behavior. Even if your case doesn't go far initially, if they are doing this consistently, enough reports will get them into the kind of hot water this hostile behavior deserves.

michaelmior 4y ago
It's not clear that this is hostile behavior. The two incidents could be completely unrelated. I'm inclined to believe that is the case based on the anecdotal evidence of other commenters.
- toss1 4y ago
  Yes, it's possible that it's a mere coincidence. Yet getting shut off for no reason at all is barely less customer-hostile than getting shut off for failing to respond their "an offer you can't refuse" marketing. If there are substantial financial consequences, then yes, OP was a fool to rely on Google (or any FAANG) for any business need. Nevertheless, while Google surely thinks they have it covered in their contracts, these are adhesion contracts that often do not stand up, and beyond that, most states have Fair Dealing laws which may well have been violated. If allowed to continue this behavior, they will continue and expand it.

ransom1538 4y ago

Depending on your state you may not be able to record the phone call. This is why companies will call when they have bad news and want to explain it. They could write an email - but this could easily be forwarded to any of your favorite blogs and becomes a legal document. A recorded phone call without consent / announcement (in CA anyway) is easy pickings for a lawyer and is an actual crime Cal. Penal Code § 632 (actual jail crime: no shoes, trying to get bail money, lol). At a previous company we knew a phone call from apple was very bad. We got a phone call we would be kicked out of the app store with deadlines. https://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/california/ https://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/california/

car_analogy 4y ago
And if you answer the phone with "this call may be recorded" (as corporations always do)?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
failrate 4y ago
Clarification for most jurisdictions in the US is that it is sufficient to announce that there is recording occurring. They do not necessarily need to orally consent. Continuing the conversation after they have been clearly notified that the call will be recorded is generally sufficient. This is why telemarketing calls inform you that the call will be recorded. Don't want to be recorded? Hang up.
lesuorac 4y ago
I always wondered about setting something up where only your side of the conversation is recorded. You'd just need to repeat a lot of what they're saying so its obvious to somebody listening to one side of the conversation what happened but I feel like it'd get around any of these laws because every party is yourself.
- yccs27 4y ago

gfosco 4y ago

novateg 4y ago
No i did not, also I always follow google's business listing guidelines.

jiveturkey 4y ago

Almost certainly a coincidence. Does Google actually call businesses? I have never received such a call. I do, however, receive many calls from scammers claiming to be from Google.

yakak 4y ago

I've seen them keep scheduling new calls where they restart each topic they don't want (or know how?) to answer until someone was frustrated and then close out access to their support for not attending all the meetings. But it didn't seem to affect the account.

austinpena 4y ago

A coworker got an email from a rep saying that if they didn't respond they would "consider suspending direct Google Ads support services for your company" But, most of these reps (unless you're really big/ working with the accelerated growth team etc) are outsourced and don't have any power. Even the ones who aren't outsourced don't have any real power and are essentially sales people.