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> Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? Who is doing that? Please cite something. > And wasn't e

> Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? Who is doing that? Please cite something. > And wasn't even on the public radar 20 years ago? Where does 20 years ago time frame come from? That's pretty arbitrary and seems more to be based on your feelings than fact.

concordDance 4y ago
I'm trying to give a working definition of "woke" based on how I've seen it used. If you have a better one I'd love to hear it.
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  I'm not sure what's up with these people who go around commenting asking people to "define X" or "define Y" or "cite Z", but IMO it seems they generally have nothing interesting to say and aren't worth responding to. Just my 2c.
  - Buttons840 4y ago
    Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. Talking about definitions seems worthwhile. We've all heard there are facts and opinions, but there's a 3rd category I think: definitions.
    - concordDance 4y ago
      > Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. And this is awful :( It's normally the Worst Argument in the World: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncentral-fallacy-the-worst-argument-in-the-world https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncen... Arguing about whether a definition is particularly useful or outlines a cluster of similar things can be good, but it's rare.
    - uejfiweun 4y ago
      The mods deleted the other thread, but basically what this guy was doing was Sealioning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning Certainly sometimes it's good to debate a word but this crossed the line into incessant requests for people to do work to come up with ever more definitions and citations.
  - middleclick 4y ago
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - uejfiweun 4y ago
      My issue is with your style of debate, because it takes work to come up with these definitions and citations that you will inevitably disagree with. It's a waste of time. To imply that this means I am against civil rights, women's suffrage, and free speech... all I can say is go fuck yourself.
      - middleclick 4y ago
        Ouch, abuse? That usually means you have run out of arguments. Well, point proved, anyway.
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily (exclusively?) for flamewar and ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of ideology, because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - dang 4y ago
        Flamewar comments like this are obviously completely unacceptable and will get you banned here. I'm not going to ban you right now, because you haven't been using HN primarily for this. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - mixmastamyk 4y ago
- middleclick 4y ago
  Still waiting for that citation for performance and wokeism but I guess I will never see it.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    I get the feeling you've misunderstood my comment. From my perspective you asked "What does woke mean?" and I drew from my personal experience to answer how I have seen it used. The examples I choose of pronouns in signatures and having a BLM position were very common ones that also occurred at my current company. Does that make sense now? I'm not actually sure what you want a citation on... that people push for pronouns in email signatures? That this does not have a direct and obvious link to workplace performance? That pushing for such was unheard of in 2001? That this is how people use the word "woke"?
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  Anything relating to equity, diversity or inclusion.
- dubswithus 4y ago
  I felt your definition was spot on. Thanks.
slingnow 4y ago
- middleclick 4y ago
oittaa 4y ago
The dude gave you an answer to your question. What are you arguing about?

concordDance 4y ago

I'm trying to give a working definition of "woke" based on how I've seen it used. If you have a better one I'd love to hear it.

uejfiweun 4y ago
I'm not sure what's up with these people who go around commenting asking people to "define X" or "define Y" or "cite Z", but IMO it seems they generally have nothing interesting to say and aren't worth responding to. Just my 2c.
- Buttons840 4y ago
  Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. Talking about definitions seems worthwhile. We've all heard there are facts and opinions, but there's a 3rd category I think: definitions.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    > Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. And this is awful :( It's normally the Worst Argument in the World: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncentral-fallacy-the-worst-argument-in-the-world https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncen... Arguing about whether a definition is particularly useful or outlines a cluster of similar things can be good, but it's rare.
  - uejfiweun 4y ago
    The mods deleted the other thread, but basically what this guy was doing was Sealioning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning Certainly sometimes it's good to debate a word but this crossed the line into incessant requests for people to do work to come up with ever more definitions and citations.
- middleclick 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - uejfiweun 4y ago
    My issue is with your style of debate, because it takes work to come up with these definitions and citations that you will inevitably disagree with. It's a waste of time. To imply that this means I am against civil rights, women's suffrage, and free speech... all I can say is go fuck yourself.
    - middleclick 4y ago
      Ouch, abuse? That usually means you have run out of arguments. Well, point proved, anyway.
      - dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily (exclusively?) for flamewar and ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of ideology, because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 4y ago
      Flamewar comments like this are obviously completely unacceptable and will get you banned here. I'm not going to ban you right now, because you haven't been using HN primarily for this. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
middleclick 4y ago
Still waiting for that citation for performance and wokeism but I guess I will never see it.
- concordDance 4y ago
  I get the feeling you've misunderstood my comment. From my perspective you asked "What does woke mean?" and I drew from my personal experience to answer how I have seen it used. The examples I choose of pronouns in signatures and having a BLM position were very common ones that also occurred at my current company. Does that make sense now? I'm not actually sure what you want a citation on... that people push for pronouns in email signatures? That this does not have a direct and obvious link to workplace performance? That pushing for such was unheard of in 2001? That this is how people use the word "woke"?
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
Anything relating to equity, diversity or inclusion.
dubswithus 4y ago
I felt your definition was spot on. Thanks.

slingnow 4y ago

middleclick 4y ago

oittaa 4y ago

The dude gave you an answer to your question. What are you arguing about?