5 ms·

It's not zoning, there's plenty of space that's permissibly zoned. The way credit works heavily discourages people from building houses and only lets them buy h

by usrn 4y ago

It's not zoning, there's plenty of space that's permissibly zoned. The way credit works heavily discourages people from building houses and only lets them buy housing that's already built. EDIT: Yes the way things are is a symptom of this. Pointing out that individuals don't get loans to build houses only proves my point.

chrisseaton 4y ago
Only a tiny minority of new houses are self-builds - most are built by developers and sold as normal with mortgages.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Normal ain't working.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    But that’s got nothing to do with credit.
- randomdata 4y ago
  Which is the outcome of potential self-builders not usually being able to secure the funding necessary.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Self-building is a lifestyle thing - vast majority of people don't have the time, effort, skill, or inclination to take on a project like that.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      What effort is required? You go down to the model home centre, pick a style you like, tell them where your vacant property is located, and hand them the money. The last bit is the only hard part. Give them some time to build the house. Done. Your involvement is required to a minimal extent, but that is also true when buying a used home. If this were settler times then you would have to do everything, perhaps, but in this advanced economy others will happily do the work for you in exchange for money. You can increase your involvement, trading time for money, as much as you wish but it isn't strictly necessary.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        Don't you have to find contractors, deal with unexpected situations in the ground, things like that? I only know a few people who built them own homes and it was a monumental effort for all kinds of corner-case issues.
        randomdata 4y ago
        It really depends on how much you are willing to spend. The more you take on yourself, the more money you can keep for yourself. Time is money, after all. In my anecdotal experience, it does seem that things like finding contractors is a place many are willing to put in the time to save some cash. However, there are businesses who are full service providers for those who want to be as hands off as possible. You will pay for that service, of course. And, indeed, to bring this full circle, if you are already struggling to obtain the necessary credit you might not be able to afford such services.
lukas099 4y ago
> It's not zoning, there's plenty of space that's permissibly zoned. Yes but it seems to me that regulation and zoning disproportionately prevent building in desirable areas. > The way credit works heavily discourages people from building houses and only lets them buy housing that's already built. Interesting, would you care to explain further?
- datavirtue 4y ago
  It's a complicated process that is nearly impossible for unsophisticated home buyers to qualify for or navigate.
bradlys 4y ago
I don’t think we should be building more SFH in BFE. We need to be building more high density in our cities. That would actually alleviate the pressure and increase quality of life while lowering tax burden for everyone.
- usrn 4y ago
  We need to be building more housing in general. The low density housing in cities is certainly an issue for cities but not everyone lives in (or wants to live in) cities. At the end of the day a housing unit is a housing unit and if you make SFH cheaper then people who don't really want MFH but only live there because it's cheap will move.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    I disagree. The issue isn't housing availability in BFE - the issue is housing availability in major cities. The reason SF is so expensive is because in spite of all the SFH being built outside of SF - it still isn't enough to compensate for the demand required IN the city. This causes run off effects in other cities/regions. If you built enough housing - people wouldn't do super commutes and ruin your idealistic small town vibes. The reason the peninsula is so expensive as well is because there's very little housing compared to the demand. If we built nice high density housing and got rid of crappy tax-inefficient suburbs then we could have lower cost of housing for everyone (including SFH).

by usrn 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

Only a tiny minority of new houses are self-builds - most are built by developers and sold as normal with mortgages.

datavirtue 4y ago
Normal ain't working.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  But that’s got nothing to do with credit.
randomdata 4y ago
Which is the outcome of potential self-builders not usually being able to secure the funding necessary.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Self-building is a lifestyle thing - vast majority of people don't have the time, effort, skill, or inclination to take on a project like that.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    What effort is required? You go down to the model home centre, pick a style you like, tell them where your vacant property is located, and hand them the money. The last bit is the only hard part. Give them some time to build the house. Done. Your involvement is required to a minimal extent, but that is also true when buying a used home. If this were settler times then you would have to do everything, perhaps, but in this advanced economy others will happily do the work for you in exchange for money. You can increase your involvement, trading time for money, as much as you wish but it isn't strictly necessary.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Don't you have to find contractors, deal with unexpected situations in the ground, things like that? I only know a few people who built them own homes and it was a monumental effort for all kinds of corner-case issues.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        It really depends on how much you are willing to spend. The more you take on yourself, the more money you can keep for yourself. Time is money, after all. In my anecdotal experience, it does seem that things like finding contractors is a place many are willing to put in the time to save some cash. However, there are businesses who are full service providers for those who want to be as hands off as possible. You will pay for that service, of course. And, indeed, to bring this full circle, if you are already struggling to obtain the necessary credit you might not be able to afford such services.

lukas099 4y ago

> It's not zoning, there's plenty of space that's permissibly zoned. Yes but it seems to me that regulation and zoning disproportionately prevent building in desirable areas. > The way credit works heavily discourages people from building houses and only lets them buy housing that's already built. Interesting, would you care to explain further?

datavirtue 4y ago
It's a complicated process that is nearly impossible for unsophisticated home buyers to qualify for or navigate.

bradlys 4y ago

I don’t think we should be building more SFH in BFE. We need to be building more high density in our cities. That would actually alleviate the pressure and increase quality of life while lowering tax burden for everyone.

usrn 4y ago
We need to be building more housing in general. The low density housing in cities is certainly an issue for cities but not everyone lives in (or wants to live in) cities. At the end of the day a housing unit is a housing unit and if you make SFH cheaper then people who don't really want MFH but only live there because it's cheap will move.
- bradlys 4y ago
  I disagree. The issue isn't housing availability in BFE - the issue is housing availability in major cities. The reason SF is so expensive is because in spite of all the SFH being built outside of SF - it still isn't enough to compensate for the demand required IN the city. This causes run off effects in other cities/regions. If you built enough housing - people wouldn't do super commutes and ruin your idealistic small town vibes. The reason the peninsula is so expensive as well is because there's very little housing compared to the demand. If we built nice high density housing and got rid of crappy tax-inefficient suburbs then we could have lower cost of housing for everyone (including SFH).