5 ms·

Believe me, as an American citizen, a huuuge contingent of us wish they didn't penetrate every aspect of life. However, I'd argue most times it's the corporate

Believe me, as an American citizen, a huuuge contingent of us wish they didn't penetrate every aspect of life. However, I'd argue most times it's the corporate executives themselves who are pushing politics at work (read: wokeism) and not employees. It seems like nearly everyone's in on it.

middleclick 4y ago
Please define wokeism. Is for example, arguing for equality wokeism? Or forming a union?
- concordDance 4y ago
  Rocking the boat basically. Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? (E.g. pronouns in email signatures or having the company take a public stance on some contempory issue like BLM) And is what you're advocating for considered "lefty"? And wasn't even on the public radar 20 years ago? Then it's woke.
  - middleclick 4y ago
    > Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? Who is doing that? Please cite something. > And wasn't even on the public radar 20 years ago? Where does 20 years ago time frame come from? That's pretty arbitrary and seems more to be based on your feelings than fact.
    - concordDance 4y ago
      I'm trying to give a working definition of "woke" based on how I've seen it used. If you have a better one I'd love to hear it.
      - uejfiweun 4y ago
        I'm not sure what's up with these people who go around commenting asking people to "define X" or "define Y" or "cite Z", but IMO it seems they generally have nothing interesting to say and aren't worth responding to. Just my 2c.
        Buttons840 4y ago
        Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. Talking about definitions seems worthwhile. We've all heard there are facts and opinions, but there's a 3rd category I think: definitions.
        concordDance 4y ago
        > Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. And this is awful :( It's normally the Worst Argument in the World: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncentral-fallacy-the-worst-argument-in-the-world https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncen... Arguing about whether a definition is particularly useful or outlines a cluster of similar things can be good, but it's rare.
        uejfiweun 4y ago
        The mods deleted the other thread, but basically what this guy was doing was Sealioning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning Certainly sometimes it's good to debate a word but this crossed the line into incessant requests for people to do work to come up with ever more definitions and citations.
        middleclick 4y ago
        deleted 4y ago
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        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - slingnow 4y ago
      - middleclick 4y ago
    - oittaa 4y ago
      The dude gave you an answer to your question. What are you arguing about?
  - matt-attack 4y ago
    I see you’re being facetious, but in all honesty, my mega large media conglomerate forced us to attend an equity presentation where we were told precisely: if you’re not actively working to quell this particular initiative that we right now find important, you’re then working against it and 100% part of the problem. Were they talking about green peace? Climate change? Save the whales? Homelessness? Air pollution? Food preservatives? Obesity? Genocide? Under-representation of Jews in the NBA? No. No apparently you can not be actively working to better those situations and you’re just fine and definitely not part of the problem. Oh but this one cause? Yeah we declare you’re part of the problem. Sorry but there are a lot of causes in the world. You simply cannot pick and try to guilt me into actively supporting it in leau of all the other causes I might be personally connected with. That was quite the insulting seminar.
- transcoderx 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  > "Please define wokeism." Wokeism (ˈwəʊkɪzəm), noun: 1) a type of progressive activism whose adherents like to play word games about whether or not they exist. Humor aside, when there's even dictionary and Wikipedia entries about wokeism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke) that outlines common themes of woke progressivism, that sort of rhetorical trickery just comes off as disingenuous.
- nothatscool 4y ago
  Arguing for equality is being a good person, arguing for equity instead of equality is wokeism.
- tomp 4y ago
  Arguing for equality of outcome (“equity”) is evil. Arguing for “inclusivity” in a corporate setting is delusional wokeism (as companies are exclusionary by definition, they don’t hire most people)
jackson1442 4y ago
A large segment of Americans also wish that their simple existence wasn't considered "political" too. Seems like we've redefined "political" to mean "things that make me uncomfortable."

middleclick 4y ago

Please define wokeism. Is for example, arguing for equality wokeism? Or forming a union?

concordDance 4y ago
Rocking the boat basically. Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? (E.g. pronouns in email signatures or having the company take a public stance on some contempory issue like BLM) And is what you're advocating for considered "lefty"? And wasn't even on the public radar 20 years ago? Then it's woke.
- middleclick 4y ago
  > Are you advocating for change in your workplace that isn't strongly linked to workplace peformance? Who is doing that? Please cite something. > And wasn't even on the public radar 20 years ago? Where does 20 years ago time frame come from? That's pretty arbitrary and seems more to be based on your feelings than fact.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    I'm trying to give a working definition of "woke" based on how I've seen it used. If you have a better one I'd love to hear it.
    - uejfiweun 4y ago
      I'm not sure what's up with these people who go around commenting asking people to "define X" or "define Y" or "cite Z", but IMO it seems they generally have nothing interesting to say and aren't worth responding to. Just my 2c.
      - Buttons840 4y ago
        Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. Talking about definitions seems worthwhile. We've all heard there are facts and opinions, but there's a 3rd category I think: definitions.
        concordDance 4y ago
        > Many arguments boil down to the definition of a word. And this is awful :( It's normally the Worst Argument in the World: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncentral-fallacy-the-worst-argument-in-the-world https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncen... Arguing about whether a definition is particularly useful or outlines a cluster of similar things can be good, but it's rare.
        uejfiweun 4y ago
        The mods deleted the other thread, but basically what this guy was doing was Sealioning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning Certainly sometimes it's good to debate a word but this crossed the line into incessant requests for people to do work to come up with ever more definitions and citations.
      - middleclick 4y ago
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - slingnow 4y ago
    - middleclick 4y ago
  - oittaa 4y ago
    The dude gave you an answer to your question. What are you arguing about?
- matt-attack 4y ago
  I see you’re being facetious, but in all honesty, my mega large media conglomerate forced us to attend an equity presentation where we were told precisely: if you’re not actively working to quell this particular initiative that we right now find important, you’re then working against it and 100% part of the problem. Were they talking about green peace? Climate change? Save the whales? Homelessness? Air pollution? Food preservatives? Obesity? Genocide? Under-representation of Jews in the NBA? No. No apparently you can not be actively working to better those situations and you’re just fine and definitely not part of the problem. Oh but this one cause? Yeah we declare you’re part of the problem. Sorry but there are a lot of causes in the world. You simply cannot pick and try to guilt me into actively supporting it in leau of all the other causes I might be personally connected with. That was quite the insulting seminar.
transcoderx 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
> "Please define wokeism." Wokeism (ˈwəʊkɪzəm), noun: 1) a type of progressive activism whose adherents like to play word games about whether or not they exist. Humor aside, when there's even dictionary and Wikipedia entries about wokeism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke) that outlines common themes of woke progressivism, that sort of rhetorical trickery just comes off as disingenuous.
nothatscool 4y ago
Arguing for equality is being a good person, arguing for equity instead of equality is wokeism.
tomp 4y ago
Arguing for equality of outcome (“equity”) is evil. Arguing for “inclusivity” in a corporate setting is delusional wokeism (as companies are exclusionary by definition, they don’t hire most people)

jackson1442 4y ago

A large segment of Americans also wish that their simple existence wasn't considered "political" too. Seems like we've redefined "political" to mean "things that make me uncomfortable."