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Python is a powerful yet beginner friendly language with a very gentle learning slope, but I would still take C++ tooling and debuggability any day over Python.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Nah man, I've spent way too much time trying to piece together libraries to turn core dumps into a useful stack trace. Similarly, as miserable as Python package management is, at least it has a package manager that works with virtually every project in the ecosystem. I actually really like writing C++, but there are certain obstacles that slow a developer down tremendously--I could forgive them if they were interesting obstacles (e.g., I can at least amuse myself pacifying Rust's borrow checker), but there's no joy in trying to cobble together a build system with CMake/etc or try to get debug information for a segfault.
- gpderetta 4y ago
  I won't spend any positive words on cmake (I'm a plain make fan), but... > or try to get debug information for a segfault what's the problem with opening the core dump with gdb and looking at the backtrace?
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    You need to provide all of the libraries referenced by the core dump (at the specific versions and compiled with debug symbols) to get gdb to produce a useful backtrace. It's been a decade since I've done professional C++ development, so I'm a bit foggy on the particulars.
    - jcelerier 4y ago
      we're in 2022, gdb asks me "can i download missing symbols from the internet" when it loads a binary and does it
      - throwaway894345 4y ago
        Glad to hear the 2022 C++ ecosystem is finally catching up on some regards, but how does it know which version of those dependencies to download, and how does it download closed source symbols?
        jcelerier 4y ago
        I mean, if it's closed source you're not getting the debug symbols in any case lol, no matter which language. It uses debuginfod for fetching symbols - here it "just works".

throwaway894345 4y ago

Nah man, I've spent way too much time trying to piece together libraries to turn core dumps into a useful stack trace. Similarly, as miserable as Python package management is, at least it has a package manager that works with virtually every project in the ecosystem. I actually really like writing C++, but there are certain obstacles that slow a developer down tremendously--I could forgive them if they were interesting obstacles (e.g., I can at least amuse myself pacifying Rust's borrow checker), but there's no joy in trying to cobble together a build system with CMake/etc or try to get debug information for a segfault.

gpderetta 4y ago
I won't spend any positive words on cmake (I'm a plain make fan), but... > or try to get debug information for a segfault what's the problem with opening the core dump with gdb and looking at the backtrace?
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  You need to provide all of the libraries referenced by the core dump (at the specific versions and compiled with debug symbols) to get gdb to produce a useful backtrace. It's been a decade since I've done professional C++ development, so I'm a bit foggy on the particulars.
  - jcelerier 4y ago
    we're in 2022, gdb asks me "can i download missing symbols from the internet" when it loads a binary and does it
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      Glad to hear the 2022 C++ ecosystem is finally catching up on some regards, but how does it know which version of those dependencies to download, and how does it download closed source symbols?
      - jcelerier 4y ago
        I mean, if it's closed source you're not getting the debug symbols in any case lol, no matter which language. It uses debuginfod for fetching symbols - here it "just works".