4 ms·

This is sort of a meta comment, but if you look across history the men and women who forced civilization and technology forward were typically gigantic assholes

This is sort of a meta comment, but if you look across history the men and women who forced civilization and technology forward were typically gigantic assholes. I'm not sure what to make of that, and Musk definitely is an asshole, but that doesn't mean I don't root for his space company that's finally returned the United States to the stars.

dmurray 4y ago
For most of civilization we've been able to overlook the fact that our leaders and heroes are gigantic assholes, and judge them by their great deeds rather than minutiae of their private interactions.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mhoad 4y ago
  I think the particular argument is that this exact lack of accountability was a mistake and allowed a lot of bad outcomes for a lot of people and only worked for those who already had the power to begin with.
mola 4y ago
It seems like that because these kind of assholes also wrote the history books (or paid the guys that did)....
- zpeti 4y ago
  Henry ford wrote a book titled the international Jew. Is that what you mean?
triceratops 4y ago
How do you know there weren't equally capable non-assholes that the assholes pushed out of the way? Isn't that the story of Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison?
- RangerScience 4y ago
  That's a really excellent historical example to bring up, and, "no". Edison and Tesla were definitely NOT equally capable. Tesla was an absolutely genius inventor and scientist, and Edison was a genius businessperson and good inventor. (Or something like that, TBH it wasn't Edison's biographies I poured over in highschool!) Tesla received life-long backing and support from Westinghouse, major investment from JP Morgan, and more. Edison tried, and for a chunk of time, did succeed at pushing Tesla out of the way, but I'd strongly argue that the things that sunk Tesla were not ways that Edison pushed him out of the way, nor would I argue that Edison ever really succeeded at pushing him out of the way.
  - triceratops 4y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I think the overall point still stands though. Maybe the reason we think that mostly only assholes are game changers is because they pushed aside, or wrote out of history, equally capable non-assholes. It's definitely the kind of thing an asshole would do.
xeromal 4y ago
My understanding is the same and I believe it's pretty obvious why they always seem to be that way. It takes a tremendous amount of self-confidence to push through "the system" in any meaningful way and that often comes off as assholish. It also causes them to behave the same in every aspect of their life. They don't compartmentalize being an asshole in business, but they're a Mr. Rogers for everything else. That kind of confidence is pervasive in every aspect of their being. They don't have room for doubt. Reading about wartime generals solidified the thought in me. Many generals like Patton weren't even very gifted strategically, but they were confident and authoritative in their decisions. Oftentimes, that's enough to pull off a victory.
scollet 4y ago
Musk has done nothing for humanity. It is literally just wasting resources.

dmurray 4y ago

For most of civilization we've been able to overlook the fact that our leaders and heroes are gigantic assholes, and judge them by their great deeds rather than minutiae of their private interactions.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mhoad 4y ago
I think the particular argument is that this exact lack of accountability was a mistake and allowed a lot of bad outcomes for a lot of people and only worked for those who already had the power to begin with.

mola 4y ago

It seems like that because these kind of assholes also wrote the history books (or paid the guys that did)....

zpeti 4y ago
Henry ford wrote a book titled the international Jew. Is that what you mean?

triceratops 4y ago

How do you know there weren't equally capable non-assholes that the assholes pushed out of the way? Isn't that the story of Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison?

RangerScience 4y ago
That's a really excellent historical example to bring up, and, "no". Edison and Tesla were definitely NOT equally capable. Tesla was an absolutely genius inventor and scientist, and Edison was a genius businessperson and good inventor. (Or something like that, TBH it wasn't Edison's biographies I poured over in highschool!) Tesla received life-long backing and support from Westinghouse, major investment from JP Morgan, and more. Edison tried, and for a chunk of time, did succeed at pushing Tesla out of the way, but I'd strongly argue that the things that sunk Tesla were not ways that Edison pushed him out of the way, nor would I argue that Edison ever really succeeded at pushing him out of the way.
- triceratops 4y ago
  Thanks for the correction. I think the overall point still stands though. Maybe the reason we think that mostly only assholes are game changers is because they pushed aside, or wrote out of history, equally capable non-assholes. It's definitely the kind of thing an asshole would do.

xeromal 4y ago

My understanding is the same and I believe it's pretty obvious why they always seem to be that way. It takes a tremendous amount of self-confidence to push through "the system" in any meaningful way and that often comes off as assholish. It also causes them to behave the same in every aspect of their life. They don't compartmentalize being an asshole in business, but they're a Mr. Rogers for everything else. That kind of confidence is pervasive in every aspect of their being. They don't have room for doubt. Reading about wartime generals solidified the thought in me. Many generals like Patton weren't even very gifted strategically, but they were confident and authoritative in their decisions. Oftentimes, that's enough to pull off a victory.

scollet 4y ago

Musk has done nothing for humanity. It is literally just wasting resources.