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He is. He just - like most other free speech proponents - conveniently fails to mention the part about consequences. It's also no secret that he's very much fi

by qayxc 4y ago

He is. He just - like most other free speech proponents - conveniently fails to mention the part about consequences. It's also no secret that he's very much fine with Claqueurs and boot lickers, but amusingly thin-skinned when it comes to critique aiming at his person, ideas, or companies. He even shut down his personal "The Onion"-clone for fear of its activity might reflect badly on him or one of his companies at some point in the future [0]. [0] https://www.mic.com/p/elon-musks-first-foray-into-comedy-was-a-strange-satirical-website-called-thud-77009671 https://www.mic.com/p/elon-musks-first-foray-into-comedy-was...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cloutchaser 4y ago
Anyone can sue musk if he libels them with his tweets. Anyone can circulate letters in spacex, but spacex can fire you. You can say whatever you want. That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences. Critics of free speech need to realise this is a silly debate between them, no “free speech absolutist” wants speech without consequences. This is basically a NYT and CNN talking point and nothing to do with reality.
- Marazan 4y ago
  Ah, so we will hear no more about the threat of "cancel culture" then?
  - votepaunchy 4y ago
    Nobody is saying these former employees should not be allowed to work any job ever again, just that SpaceX is not the right workplace for them.
    - zpeti 4y ago
      Not to mention there is a difference in criticizing the CEO of a company for unsubstantiated and unproven claims, circulating internal letters, and getting fired, and saying that a man is not a woman on Twitter and not being able to work in most academia or media ever again in the next 5-10 years or maybe forever. The place is context and result is comletely different.
      - qayxc 4y ago
        There's also always the option to simply not spout off about personal opinions all over the internet unasked, especially when knowing about possible consequences. Does everyone these days feel the need to become a martyr over completely insignificant personal opinions about all kinds of drivel that doesn't even affect them personally? Is this really the hill some of you want to die on, because it's more important to you to discuss the relevance of genitals with billions of people, than to just keep this shit to yourself and maybe rage about it offline with friends and family and keep your job and future prospects? Do you really have so little going on in your lives that you absolutely must have a strong opinion about everyone and everything and just have to share this in the most public, traceable, and persistent way possible, lest your mind implodes from all the piled up internal stress?
        cloutchaser 4y ago
        When children are getting hormone treatment, without any real oversight, with lifetime consequences, a lot of people feel like they have to get involved yes. That's just the way some people are. You might not like that, but I do. And in case you don't believe the truly terrible effects of this, have a read in the detrans subreddit.
        fsociety 4y ago
        I have read the detrans subreddit. A lot of the accounts involve trauma in not being accepted in a non-cis identity. Others in not receiving enough support from either doctors or through therapy. There is varying oversight in receiving hormone treatment as well. Trans groups are wide and varied. You will find plenty who believe in the weight of the decision and that it should be made accordingly. This doesn’t excuse the huge amount of disrespect and hurt that gets thrown towards someone because they ask to be identified as a man or a woman. Just the other day someone burned a pride flag in Baltimore and ended up burning down three houses and sending four people to the hospital. Surely in their mind somewhere, there was a thought that they were saving children from a “delusion”. But in this instance who has the delusion?
- mola 4y ago
  Yeah, good luck standing in court against a billionaire... His money puts him above most laws, especially non criminal ones. This is ok because he owns stuff is an antithesis to a democratic free country with a rule of law. It's basically a step towards monarchy.
hrbf 4y ago
The consequences of “free speech” are way easier if you’re the one doling them out as opposed to receiving them. There’s a massive power imbalance that this particular billionaire is looking to escalate in his favor.
Spartan112 4y ago
That's just the most hypocritical thing to be. Free speech means not being prosecuted by the government, so being a free-speech absolutist as an indiviual is completely meaningless. If he is trying to be a free-speech absolutist in terms of every opinion being heard equally and fairly without punishment, which is what absolutist implies, he is also a hypocrite as shown in his numerous actions against critics. Overall, no matter how you spin and turn it, Musk is not a free-speech "absolutist" in any way. He has no specific position on free-speech other than what has the basic law that applies to every citizen. What a joke.

by qayxc 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cloutchaser 4y ago

Anyone can sue musk if he libels them with his tweets. Anyone can circulate letters in spacex, but spacex can fire you. You can say whatever you want. That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences. Critics of free speech need to realise this is a silly debate between them, no “free speech absolutist” wants speech without consequences. This is basically a NYT and CNN talking point and nothing to do with reality.

Marazan 4y ago
Ah, so we will hear no more about the threat of "cancel culture" then?
- votepaunchy 4y ago
  Nobody is saying these former employees should not be allowed to work any job ever again, just that SpaceX is not the right workplace for them.
  - zpeti 4y ago
    Not to mention there is a difference in criticizing the CEO of a company for unsubstantiated and unproven claims, circulating internal letters, and getting fired, and saying that a man is not a woman on Twitter and not being able to work in most academia or media ever again in the next 5-10 years or maybe forever. The place is context and result is comletely different.
    - qayxc 4y ago
      There's also always the option to simply not spout off about personal opinions all over the internet unasked, especially when knowing about possible consequences. Does everyone these days feel the need to become a martyr over completely insignificant personal opinions about all kinds of drivel that doesn't even affect them personally? Is this really the hill some of you want to die on, because it's more important to you to discuss the relevance of genitals with billions of people, than to just keep this shit to yourself and maybe rage about it offline with friends and family and keep your job and future prospects? Do you really have so little going on in your lives that you absolutely must have a strong opinion about everyone and everything and just have to share this in the most public, traceable, and persistent way possible, lest your mind implodes from all the piled up internal stress?
      - cloutchaser 4y ago
        When children are getting hormone treatment, without any real oversight, with lifetime consequences, a lot of people feel like they have to get involved yes. That's just the way some people are. You might not like that, but I do. And in case you don't believe the truly terrible effects of this, have a read in the detrans subreddit.
        fsociety 4y ago
        I have read the detrans subreddit. A lot of the accounts involve trauma in not being accepted in a non-cis identity. Others in not receiving enough support from either doctors or through therapy. There is varying oversight in receiving hormone treatment as well. Trans groups are wide and varied. You will find plenty who believe in the weight of the decision and that it should be made accordingly. This doesn’t excuse the huge amount of disrespect and hurt that gets thrown towards someone because they ask to be identified as a man or a woman. Just the other day someone burned a pride flag in Baltimore and ended up burning down three houses and sending four people to the hospital. Surely in their mind somewhere, there was a thought that they were saving children from a “delusion”. But in this instance who has the delusion?
mola 4y ago
Yeah, good luck standing in court against a billionaire... His money puts him above most laws, especially non criminal ones. This is ok because he owns stuff is an antithesis to a democratic free country with a rule of law. It's basically a step towards monarchy.

hrbf 4y ago

The consequences of “free speech” are way easier if you’re the one doling them out as opposed to receiving them. There’s a massive power imbalance that this particular billionaire is looking to escalate in his favor.

Spartan112 4y ago

That's just the most hypocritical thing to be. Free speech means not being prosecuted by the government, so being a free-speech absolutist as an indiviual is completely meaningless. If he is trying to be a free-speech absolutist in terms of every opinion being heard equally and fairly without punishment, which is what absolutist implies, he is also a hypocrite as shown in his numerous actions against critics. Overall, no matter how you spin and turn it, Musk is not a free-speech "absolutist" in any way. He has no specific position on free-speech other than what has the basic law that applies to every citizen. What a joke.