5 ms·

Just a personal anecdote, but I was waiting for a train in Osaka with a friend. It arrived 2 minutes before our departure time so we got on. Then it announced d

by kurthr 4y ago

Just a personal anecdote, but I was waiting for a train in Osaka with a friend. It arrived 2 minutes before our departure time so we got on. Then it announced departure 1 minute before our departure time... we looked at each other and jumped at the door with it closing on us and our luggage. With a nasty look from the other people on the train we got off... and waited another minute until our train arrived. The trains in Tokyo all seem to have nice new signs with upcoming train info next to each of the tracks. That makes it much harder to get on the wrong one. Also, google maps works disturbingly well for Tokyo subways.

CydeWeys 4y ago
> Also, google maps works disturbingly well for Tokyo subways. Tokyo is a large engineering office for Google (and the first in Asia IIRC). This probably explains it.
Semaphor 4y ago
> The trains in Tokyo all seem to have nice new signs with upcoming train info next to each of the tracks. It’s the same in Germany. Something like this [0] is at pretty much every train station nowadays, even the small ones. [0]: https://sbahn.berlin/fileadmin/_processed_/d/b/csm_Ring_anzeige_mg_1682_byDavidUlrich-035_454e4a2981.jpg https://sbahn.berlin/fileadmin/_processed_/d/b/csm_Ring_anze...
- 411111111111111 4y ago
  Yeah, the upcoming trains are usually shown on these. There is a difference though: In Germany the train will usually be 10++ minutes late or straight up never show up (at least for long distance travel).
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    That’s probably why they focused so much on getting digital signage up :D
    - glowingly 4y ago
      Where I used to live, the digital signage only showed the schedule, not the actual train ETA. The schedule was almost completely useless, however, the online website (at the time) didn't show the schedule for every station (edit: they still don't). So there was some use, at least. Not that it mattered, since the train never met that schedule, outside of the first run of the day. Then covid hit, the city paused train service, I moved out, and I really don't care to commute to work (or school, at the time) again.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Amtrak had added the signage when I was using it in Southern California, and it could be fun to watch it continually update the "expected arrival time" which seemed to only jump by five minutes even when the train was physically thirty minutes away. The website was much more accurate about where the train was and when it would arrive.
  - kuschku 4y ago
    That heavily depends. e.g., ever since the IC208/209 has been replaced with a Br 412, it’s been far more reliable. Which is why e.g., in Düsseldorf 1038 and 208 can now be scheduled on the same platform, so in the morning you’ll have the 208 at 6:32 and the 1038 at 6:38.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  In Hamburg there are similar, but slightly smaller things at almost every bus stop, indicating which line to which destination arrives next in minutes. In 4 rows for a single panel, where larger bus stops have more panels. Or also smaller ones, single lined under the freestanding roof in some. Also delays, if they happen. Seems like they are all over Germany, too. Not exactly 'comfortable', but informative. Don't have to use an app, don't need to look at the timetable, don't have to wait in uncertainty. Just go, see, ride, done.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    I was always jealous of those, luckily most bus stops in Lübeck have those as well, nowadays. But you were many years ahead of us.
goodpoint 4y ago
Don't trains have a route or vehicle number like flights and busses?
- ssl232 4y ago
  I think the commenter was making the point that, whilst blindly getting on a train arriving at the correct platform 2 minutes early would work in most parts of the world, it doesn't in Japan.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    It happens in other busy stations around the world as well. Check the train number.
  - WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
    Happened to me. Not in Japan. I once boarded a train that had arrived at the correct platform, on time, and to the correct destination. It turned out, though, that I had a ticket for a different train that was late.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Not in the UK. They have destinations.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    The UK has the head code system, which is much the same.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Whatever they are those aren’t shown to the user anywhere I’ve looked. People just say ‘the 1030 to Euston’ or whatever. I’m sure they have internal IDs.
- tremon 4y ago
  In NL, trains indeed do not have route numbers, and the vehicle (carriage) numbers are usually not for public consumption. The one exception is for when the train splits halfway through the route: it'll be announced as "after the next stop, carriages A and B will continue on to X; carriages C and D will go to Y". That said, we have had dynamic train information displays on all platforms for as long as I can remember (wikipedia says since 1961). When I was young, they used to be mechanical rotary displays [0] (klapperborden, aka "clacking displays", referring to the sound they make when the system was leafing through the pre-printed sheets), but they have been replaced with TV screens or LED matrix displays in most places now. [0] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centraal_bediende_treinaanwijzers_in_Nederland https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centraal_bediende_treinaanwijz...
bloak 4y ago
In Japan, is the "departure time" understood to be the time at which the doors close, or the time at which the train starts moving? This is a common debate in Britain: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-doors-may-close-30-seconds-before-departure-what-a-nonsense.53282/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-doors-may-close-3... Personally I think that for the convenience of passengers the doors should not close before the published time, which is traditionally called "departure time" but I don't really care what they call it; the point is that people need to know the time at which they need to be on the train and the easiest way to tell them is to tell them directly without any bizarre offsets.
- twic 4y ago
  If your flight leaves at 12:30, do you walk up to the gate a few seconds before that and expect to get on? Is there anything with a departure time where you expect to be able to get on momentarily before departure?
  - adrianN 4y ago
    A bus for example and many trains too. I'm not sure I understand your question.
    - twic 4y ago
      Buses is fair enough.
  - robocat 4y ago
    Flight departure times are a shitty user interface. Who cares when the plane taxis or takes off? The time given should ideally be when check-in closes - much easier to plan around.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      It is probably the anchor for everything else. The plane had scheduled a flight plan based on that departure time. Check in might close consistently X minutes before that, but sometimes not. I have been at an airport (pre covid) 3 hours early and only just made it on the plane due to airport chaos.

by kurthr 4y ago

CydeWeys 4y ago

> Also, google maps works disturbingly well for Tokyo subways. Tokyo is a large engineering office for Google (and the first in Asia IIRC). This probably explains it.

Semaphor 4y ago

> The trains in Tokyo all seem to have nice new signs with upcoming train info next to each of the tracks. It’s the same in Germany. Something like this [0] is at pretty much every train station nowadays, even the small ones. [0]: https://sbahn.berlin/fileadmin/_processed_/d/b/csm_Ring_anzeige_mg_1682_byDavidUlrich-035_454e4a2981.jpg https://sbahn.berlin/fileadmin/_processed_/d/b/csm_Ring_anze...

411111111111111 4y ago
Yeah, the upcoming trains are usually shown on these. There is a difference though: In Germany the train will usually be 10++ minutes late or straight up never show up (at least for long distance travel).
- Semaphor 4y ago
  That’s probably why they focused so much on getting digital signage up :D
  - glowingly 4y ago
    Where I used to live, the digital signage only showed the schedule, not the actual train ETA. The schedule was almost completely useless, however, the online website (at the time) didn't show the schedule for every station (edit: they still don't). So there was some use, at least. Not that it mattered, since the train never met that schedule, outside of the first run of the day. Then covid hit, the city paused train service, I moved out, and I really don't care to commute to work (or school, at the time) again.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Amtrak had added the signage when I was using it in Southern California, and it could be fun to watch it continually update the "expected arrival time" which seemed to only jump by five minutes even when the train was physically thirty minutes away. The website was much more accurate about where the train was and when it would arrive.
- kuschku 4y ago
  That heavily depends. e.g., ever since the IC208/209 has been replaced with a Br 412, it’s been far more reliable. Which is why e.g., in Düsseldorf 1038 and 208 can now be scheduled on the same platform, so in the morning you’ll have the 208 at 6:32 and the 1038 at 6:38.
LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
In Hamburg there are similar, but slightly smaller things at almost every bus stop, indicating which line to which destination arrives next in minutes. In 4 rows for a single panel, where larger bus stops have more panels. Or also smaller ones, single lined under the freestanding roof in some. Also delays, if they happen. Seems like they are all over Germany, too. Not exactly 'comfortable', but informative. Don't have to use an app, don't need to look at the timetable, don't have to wait in uncertainty. Just go, see, ride, done.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  I was always jealous of those, luckily most bus stops in Lübeck have those as well, nowadays. But you were many years ahead of us.

goodpoint 4y ago

Don't trains have a route or vehicle number like flights and busses?

ssl232 4y ago
I think the commenter was making the point that, whilst blindly getting on a train arriving at the correct platform 2 minutes early would work in most parts of the world, it doesn't in Japan.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  It happens in other busy stations around the world as well. Check the train number.
- WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
  Happened to me. Not in Japan. I once boarded a train that had arrived at the correct platform, on time, and to the correct destination. It turned out, though, that I had a ticket for a different train that was late.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Not in the UK. They have destinations.
- TylerE 4y ago
  The UK has the head code system, which is much the same.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Whatever they are those aren’t shown to the user anywhere I’ve looked. People just say ‘the 1030 to Euston’ or whatever. I’m sure they have internal IDs.
tremon 4y ago
In NL, trains indeed do not have route numbers, and the vehicle (carriage) numbers are usually not for public consumption. The one exception is for when the train splits halfway through the route: it'll be announced as "after the next stop, carriages A and B will continue on to X; carriages C and D will go to Y". That said, we have had dynamic train information displays on all platforms for as long as I can remember (wikipedia says since 1961). When I was young, they used to be mechanical rotary displays [0] (klapperborden, aka "clacking displays", referring to the sound they make when the system was leafing through the pre-printed sheets), but they have been replaced with TV screens or LED matrix displays in most places now. [0] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centraal_bediende_treinaanwijzers_in_Nederland https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centraal_bediende_treinaanwijz...

bloak 4y ago

In Japan, is the "departure time" understood to be the time at which the doors close, or the time at which the train starts moving? This is a common debate in Britain: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-doors-may-close-30-seconds-before-departure-what-a-nonsense.53282/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-doors-may-close-3... Personally I think that for the convenience of passengers the doors should not close before the published time, which is traditionally called "departure time" but I don't really care what they call it; the point is that people need to know the time at which they need to be on the train and the easiest way to tell them is to tell them directly without any bizarre offsets.

twic 4y ago
If your flight leaves at 12:30, do you walk up to the gate a few seconds before that and expect to get on? Is there anything with a departure time where you expect to be able to get on momentarily before departure?
- adrianN 4y ago
  A bus for example and many trains too. I'm not sure I understand your question.
  - twic 4y ago
    Buses is fair enough.
- robocat 4y ago
  Flight departure times are a shitty user interface. Who cares when the plane taxis or takes off? The time given should ideally be when check-in closes - much easier to plan around.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    It is probably the anchor for everything else. The plane had scheduled a flight plan based on that departure time. Check in might close consistently X minutes before that, but sometimes not. I have been at an airport (pre covid) 3 hours early and only just made it on the plane due to airport chaos.