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Not to defend Tesla's use of untrained personnel to perform service, but the examples you've given are great examples of what can be performed by untrained pers

by bink 4y ago

Not to defend Tesla's use of untrained personnel to perform service, but the examples you've given are great examples of what can be performed by untrained personnel. You've perfectly explained pretty much everything that can go wrong when rotating tires and it can be explained to a monkey in about 3 sentences.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
toss1 4y ago
Sure, that will work great — IFF — we're explaining it to an experienced person who's already developed has a feel for the physical properties of materials, selection and use of tools, and shop safety. To people like you and I with that kind of experience and sensibility already trained in, a few sentences and we're more than good to go, because we'll intuit the rest from our pre-existing knowledge. And, even to a person with general feel for tools and materials but new to automotive, even eplaining torquing takes more than a few sentences. You can't just say "pull the towque wrench until it clicks" - you need to explain that you cannot push it faster, and you cannot keep clicking it mutiple times, as both of those will result in overtorquing. Ensuring that both stud and lug nut threads are clean & properly lubricated, or the spec'd torque won't actually create the required thread tension to hold... it's not just 3 sentences, it's more like a 15min lecture. For everyone else, it is like explaining it to a monkey — they might hear it, but will get some of the explicit instructions wrong and make bad or random judgements about everything else. Even if some of the major things are gotten right, there's a 100 other things that can go wrong - they don't mount the socket quite right on the nut, push too hard and slip with the wrench, scratching the adjacent body panel, and sure, they redo it and ultimately get the torque right, but now there's a scratch on the customer's car... or something is off and they don't have the shop sense to know it, then some accident happens... I've had even good mechanics who properly torque things spin the nuts on then forget to torque one wheel (maybe distracted by a call, didn't get back to it). We've all been around the cringefest of people with zero (or negative) mechanical or tool sense in a shop — constantly hoping that they'll leave soon or learn fast. At least the people who want to learn probably will with good experience and guidance. But I sure as heck wouldn't want some poor salesguy who doesn't even want to be there working next to me or working on my car. I do get the personnel shortage, and Tesla definitely needs to address their constantly reported nearly Google-horrible service. I also think it would be OK if they asked for volunteers from other staff who has experience. but somehow, it looks more like it's just another mad scramble. Some will get it right and learn something, but it'll mostly be more fckups, done faster. Edit fmt

by bink 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

toss1 4y ago

Sure, that will work great — IFF — we're explaining it to an experienced person who's already developed has a feel for the physical properties of materials, selection and use of tools, and shop safety. To people like you and I with that kind of experience and sensibility already trained in, a few sentences and we're more than good to go, because we'll intuit the rest from our pre-existing knowledge. And, even to a person with general feel for tools and materials but new to automotive, even eplaining torquing takes more than a few sentences. You can't just say "pull the towque wrench until it clicks" - you need to explain that you cannot push it faster, and you cannot keep clicking it mutiple times, as both of those will result in overtorquing. Ensuring that both stud and lug nut threads are clean & properly lubricated, or the spec'd torque won't actually create the required thread tension to hold... it's not just 3 sentences, it's more like a 15min lecture. For everyone else, it is like explaining it to a monkey — they might hear it, but will get some of the explicit instructions wrong and make bad or random judgements about everything else. Even if some of the major things are gotten right, there's a 100 other things that can go wrong - they don't mount the socket quite right on the nut, push too hard and slip with the wrench, scratching the adjacent body panel, and sure, they redo it and ultimately get the torque right, but now there's a scratch on the customer's car... or something is off and they don't have the shop sense to know it, then some accident happens... I've had even good mechanics who properly torque things spin the nuts on then forget to torque one wheel (maybe distracted by a call, didn't get back to it). We've all been around the cringefest of people with zero (or negative) mechanical or tool sense in a shop — constantly hoping that they'll leave soon or learn fast. At least the people who want to learn probably will with good experience and guidance. But I sure as heck wouldn't want some poor salesguy who doesn't even want to be there working next to me or working on my car. I do get the personnel shortage, and Tesla definitely needs to address their constantly reported nearly Google-horrible service. I also think it would be OK if they asked for volunteers from other staff who has experience. but somehow, it looks more like it's just another mad scramble. Some will get it right and learn something, but it'll mostly be more fckups, done faster. Edit fmt