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If you read the actual questions they ask, the truth is a lot less sensational. I'm still fuzzy on "replacement theory" since it jumped into the news after the

If you read the actual questions they ask, the truth is a lot less sensational. I'm still fuzzy on "replacement theory" since it jumped into the news after the Buffalo shooting as the latest boogeyman. But the question they asked was, according to the article, whether people believe (I don't know if it's on a scale or true / false) > There is a group of people in this country who are trying to replace native born Canadians with immigrants who agree with their political view. The bar here for agreeing looks pretty low to me, much lower than needing to believe in some global conspiracy. And it's certainly a question open to interpretation. Is believing that some political parties (or even some people in them) court immigrants and which there were more of them because they would get more votes really "racist" and a conspiracy theory? If they were doing real research, they would have had more probing questions about people's beliefs, not just interpreted the answers to ambiguous question how they want and making sensational claims about how ignorant they think people are. The real prejudice is coming from the people sensationalizing this crap

moistly 4y ago
> Is believing that some political parties (or even some people in them) court immigrants and which there were more of them because they would get more votes really "racist" and a conspiracy theory? It is both, and fucking stupid.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  High immigration and lack of border enforcement isn't something uncontrollable, like the weather. It's a choice, made by politicians.
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    I don’t think the anyone was saying that it takes a conspiracy theory to see that immigration policy is an ongoing political debate with politicians on either side. But if you think everybody you disagree with is acting with secret ulterior motives that they never divulge publicly (or only in slip ups), you get a a lot closer to one.
    - car_analogy 4y ago
      But is that how it is debunked? Do newspapers, when addressing this conspiracy theory, write "Yes, our immigration policies could be likened to a great replacement, and will soon result in your minority status, but it is not a 'conspiracy' because we are doing it openly"? And, if someone dislikes the results of such immigration policy, why would they care of the exact motives behind it? Even if you convince them it's not a conspiracy, their stance won't change.
- moistly 4y ago
  Canada has about 15% immigrant population. The main parties all field 13–16% ethnic candidates. Just look at this freaking graph: in the 2011 election, *immigrants born Middle Eastern, African, East Asian, American, and European all voted for the CPC more than the Liberals.* http://ipolitics.ca/news/immigrants-are-not-a-monolithic-voting-block http://ipolitics.ca/news/immigrants-are-not-a-monolithic-vot... Doug Ford, Conservative, won the provincial election the other week because of the ethnic vote. The Canadian Liberals got smoked in 2008 and 2011 because immigrants voted Conservative. The only reason Conservatives lost the immigrant vote this past few cycles is because shot their own damn feet off with their "barbaric cultural practices hotline" stupidity. Canadian voters are, by and large, not loyal to any party. When the Liberals cock things up too much, Liberal voters vote Conservative, even though they still identify as liberal. And when the Conservative Party fields an absolute loser of a leader, Conservative voters vote Liberal, even though they still identify as conservative. The "Replacement Theory" is, as I said, racist and fucking stupid.
swatcoder 4y ago
> Is believing that some political parties (or even some people in them) court immigrants and which there were more of them because they would get more votes really "racist" and a conspiracy theory? You know, I think you’re asking a fair and earnest question, but let’s just try to dig into the conspiracy theory part on its own. Can you think of organizations that openly advocate for that cause? If so, that doesn’t sound like a conspiracy theory; just a political anxiety. But if you can’t think of any, do you think its a machination happening in the shadows? Is there any evidence that could convince you otherwise? A lot of conspiracy theories rely on non-falsifiability and on assembling theories from suggestive evidence (a “telling statement” here or there, the ramblings of a loudmouthed ideologue, a leaked document) rather than normal signals of political behavior like an organized advocacy group or party platform statements.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  > Can you think of organizations that openly advocate for that cause? If so, that doesn’t sound like a conspiracy theory; just a political anxiety. I mean, that's basically saying that it is happening, but it's not a conspiracy. "Yes all these things you fear are in fact happening and you are being replaced, but it's not a conspiracy we're doing it in the open" is not the usual retort. And I believe the proponents of the great replacement conspiracy theory don't even call it a conspiracy theory - to them, it's just "the great replacement". "Conspiracy theory" is tacked on largely by its detractors.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
It isn't just for getting in people that agree with them. It is often simply motivated by animosity similar to those with the other sign that want no immigration. People complaining about too many white people aren't driven by altruism either. They are nearly as racist as those that have problems with peoples skin color. Well, having problems with skin color is common ground really. But immigrants also won't vote for them. Why should they? Their culture would be as badly treated as the proponents treat their own. It is just some kind of childish crusade against those they see a more successful and it is despicable how much politicians courted and still court such positions. That makes them a larger problem than real racists since the latter is no defensible position in modern society. Hasn't been for decades.

moistly 4y ago

car_analogy 4y ago
High immigration and lack of border enforcement isn't something uncontrollable, like the weather. It's a choice, made by politicians.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  I don’t think the anyone was saying that it takes a conspiracy theory to see that immigration policy is an ongoing political debate with politicians on either side. But if you think everybody you disagree with is acting with secret ulterior motives that they never divulge publicly (or only in slip ups), you get a a lot closer to one.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    But is that how it is debunked? Do newspapers, when addressing this conspiracy theory, write "Yes, our immigration policies could be likened to a great replacement, and will soon result in your minority status, but it is not a 'conspiracy' because we are doing it openly"? And, if someone dislikes the results of such immigration policy, why would they care of the exact motives behind it? Even if you convince them it's not a conspiracy, their stance won't change.
moistly 4y ago
Canada has about 15% immigrant population. The main parties all field 13–16% ethnic candidates. Just look at this freaking graph: in the 2011 election, *immigrants born Middle Eastern, African, East Asian, American, and European all voted for the CPC more than the Liberals.* http://ipolitics.ca/news/immigrants-are-not-a-monolithic-voting-block http://ipolitics.ca/news/immigrants-are-not-a-monolithic-vot... Doug Ford, Conservative, won the provincial election the other week because of the ethnic vote. The Canadian Liberals got smoked in 2008 and 2011 because immigrants voted Conservative. The only reason Conservatives lost the immigrant vote this past few cycles is because shot their own damn feet off with their "barbaric cultural practices hotline" stupidity. Canadian voters are, by and large, not loyal to any party. When the Liberals cock things up too much, Liberal voters vote Conservative, even though they still identify as liberal. And when the Conservative Party fields an absolute loser of a leader, Conservative voters vote Liberal, even though they still identify as conservative. The "Replacement Theory" is, as I said, racist and fucking stupid.

swatcoder 4y ago

> Is believing that some political parties (or even some people in them) court immigrants and which there were more of them because they would get more votes really "racist" and a conspiracy theory? You know, I think you’re asking a fair and earnest question, but let’s just try to dig into the conspiracy theory part on its own. Can you think of organizations that openly advocate for that cause? If so, that doesn’t sound like a conspiracy theory; just a political anxiety. But if you can’t think of any, do you think its a machination happening in the shadows? Is there any evidence that could convince you otherwise? A lot of conspiracy theories rely on non-falsifiability and on assembling theories from suggestive evidence (a “telling statement” here or there, the ramblings of a loudmouthed ideologue, a leaked document) rather than normal signals of political behavior like an organized advocacy group or party platform statements.

car_analogy 4y ago
> Can you think of organizations that openly advocate for that cause? If so, that doesn’t sound like a conspiracy theory; just a political anxiety. I mean, that's basically saying that it is happening, but it's not a conspiracy. "Yes all these things you fear are in fact happening and you are being replaced, but it's not a conspiracy we're doing it in the open" is not the usual retort. And I believe the proponents of the great replacement conspiracy theory don't even call it a conspiracy theory - to them, it's just "the great replacement". "Conspiracy theory" is tacked on largely by its detractors.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

It isn't just for getting in people that agree with them. It is often simply motivated by animosity similar to those with the other sign that want no immigration. People complaining about too many white people aren't driven by altruism either. They are nearly as racist as those that have problems with peoples skin color. Well, having problems with skin color is common ground really. But immigrants also won't vote for them. Why should they? Their culture would be as badly treated as the proponents treat their own. It is just some kind of childish crusade against those they see a more successful and it is despicable how much politicians courted and still court such positions. That makes them a larger problem than real racists since the latter is no defensible position in modern society. Hasn't been for decades.