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Maybe they could get him to stop lying about colonizing Mars, while they're at it. (Starship is wholly inadequate to even start colonizing Mars. It might be ju

by ncmncm 4y ago

Maybe they could get him to stop lying about colonizing Mars, while they're at it. (Starship is wholly inadequate to even start colonizing Mars. It might be just barely adequate to start an outpost with a half-dozen staff. It probably could support an active moon base.) He has anyway not lied about the possibility of suborbital passenger or freight service lately, to my knowledge. BTW, Shotwell has, too.

oneoff786 4y ago
Mars has a lot of problems to solve, but as far as freight goes starship seems totally adequate to me. What exactly is the problem?
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Starters, it takes a hell of a lot more than freight to make a colony. Starship is wholly inadequate to take more than 17 crew to Mars; that would be if you don't mind some killed on the way there. So, you send 4 or 5 cargo ships, 500 tons of stuff, and two ships swinging on the ends of a cable, so their bones don't melt on the way there. (Which, BTW, takes 9, not 6, months.) Maybe one is a spare, with everything duplicated. The main ship fits 8 crew with just-tolerable comfort, with stuff you will actually need for 9 months unimaginably distant from all possibility of help. Change of underwear, you think? Water, food. Air? Space suits, to go outside when they arrive? Maybe a hand truck. They get there, and now have to unship and set up 500 tons of crap. It only weighs 170-some tons, which is not much better. Set up a massive solar farm and methane and oxygen factory. Debug it. Assemble vehicles, freight handlers, bulldozer and excavator. Individual pod huts, so crew can sometimes get away from others they have come to detest. Look around and think, "This place is a dump." Because every last detail is way worse than the worst place on Earth. Cold, dim, featureless, bone dry, dusty. The dust sticks to everything, seemingly leaping up to soil any clean surface. Enough is enough, but nobody can go home until the launch window opens, and the fuel is banked.
  - ericd 4y ago
    Sounds like you probably don't want to be a settler, which is fine, most people don't. Some people are into that kind of thing.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Rather more think they are into that kind of thing, until they get there, and find out what it is really like.
      - ericd 4y ago
        Yeah, for sure. Would be useful to have an Earth-side demo that a settler could try out for a month.
        hunterb123 4y ago
        We already do: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/27/this-is-the-true-story-of-six-strangers-picked-to-live-in-a-nasa-dome/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...
        ncmncm 4y ago
        That has not turned out well.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    I'd think most people would be living indoors in a controlled climate and wouldn't suffer the adjectives you threw out. Is it much different than those who volunteer to live on the ISS? The difference is instead of walking out in space every now and then you occasionally work outside in an alien world. The dust storms would be intense, you probably wouldn't leave shelter then, but if you've ever been out in the desert, it can be really beautiful. Personally give me internet and A/C and I can stay anywhere for years, outside time or not, it's what I do now essentially. The alien backyard work is a bonus. Different strokes for different people. You don't seem to have a settler attitude, and that's okay.

by ncmncm 4y ago

oneoff786 4y ago

Mars has a lot of problems to solve, but as far as freight goes starship seems totally adequate to me. What exactly is the problem?

ncmncm 4y ago
Starters, it takes a hell of a lot more than freight to make a colony. Starship is wholly inadequate to take more than 17 crew to Mars; that would be if you don't mind some killed on the way there. So, you send 4 or 5 cargo ships, 500 tons of stuff, and two ships swinging on the ends of a cable, so their bones don't melt on the way there. (Which, BTW, takes 9, not 6, months.) Maybe one is a spare, with everything duplicated. The main ship fits 8 crew with just-tolerable comfort, with stuff you will actually need for 9 months unimaginably distant from all possibility of help. Change of underwear, you think? Water, food. Air? Space suits, to go outside when they arrive? Maybe a hand truck. They get there, and now have to unship and set up 500 tons of crap. It only weighs 170-some tons, which is not much better. Set up a massive solar farm and methane and oxygen factory. Debug it. Assemble vehicles, freight handlers, bulldozer and excavator. Individual pod huts, so crew can sometimes get away from others they have come to detest. Look around and think, "This place is a dump." Because every last detail is way worse than the worst place on Earth. Cold, dim, featureless, bone dry, dusty. The dust sticks to everything, seemingly leaping up to soil any clean surface. Enough is enough, but nobody can go home until the launch window opens, and the fuel is banked.
- ericd 4y ago
  Sounds like you probably don't want to be a settler, which is fine, most people don't. Some people are into that kind of thing.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Rather more think they are into that kind of thing, until they get there, and find out what it is really like.
    - ericd 4y ago
      Yeah, for sure. Would be useful to have an Earth-side demo that a settler could try out for a month.
      - hunterb123 4y ago
        We already do: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/27/this-is-the-true-story-of-six-strangers-picked-to-live-in-a-nasa-dome/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...
        ncmncm 4y ago
        That has not turned out well.
- hunterb123 4y ago
  I'd think most people would be living indoors in a controlled climate and wouldn't suffer the adjectives you threw out. Is it much different than those who volunteer to live on the ISS? The difference is instead of walking out in space every now and then you occasionally work outside in an alien world. The dust storms would be intense, you probably wouldn't leave shelter then, but if you've ever been out in the desert, it can be really beautiful. Personally give me internet and A/C and I can stay anywhere for years, outside time or not, it's what I do now essentially. The alien backyard work is a bonus. Different strokes for different people. You don't seem to have a settler attitude, and that's okay.