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> they didn’t cover their tracks very well anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean they actually told him where they were from (geographically, if not organizationally), so c

> they didn’t cover their tracks very well anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean they actually told him where they were from (geographically, if not organizationally), so clearly they didn't consider it something that needed to be secret. Which is interesting, because it gives us insight into their way of thinking [1]. They clearly don't consider themselves to be in any way toxic like the author thinks they are. Cults are interesting: they provide a sense of belonging and accomplishment to their members, in exchange for something (time, money/tithe, ...). In that respect, they're just another point on the spectrum of human social groups. Including some corporations. Frankly, I (and clearly other commenters here) have difficulty finding a clear ontological distinction between such a cult and, well, the Google corporation itself. [1] I'm already Othering them, which I'm sure they'd be surprised about

swatcoder 4y ago
The satanic and brainwashing/deprogramming scares of the 80’s changed the way a lot of people use the word, but for the preceding several millennia cult simply suggested: A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. There are millions of these around us, and we’re all probably members of several. It seems to be pretty normal throughout history. We just don’t acknowledge it as such because the word was only fairly recently stigmatized.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  Yes, I think in this context the word "cult" is inappropriate. The word the author was looking for is "clique".
  - happyopossum 4y ago
    Umm, members of cliques don't ritually abuse each other - that's a cult thing.
    - nonrandomstring 4y ago
      Okay, more nuance: The shit this "Fellowship of Friends" actually does - that's a cult. I guess wanted to say they're a clique of cult members. The cult is real. The clique is the group within Google (as opposed to there being a cult within Google), I hope that distinction makes sense. I've seen this before. At the BBC. Everyone closed ranks around Jimmy Savile and an organisation called PIE (paedophile information exchange). You were literally told you couldn't say anything about it. But AFAIK the rotten group was small, but powerful. Many, many more decent people work at the BBC. As I'm sure applies to Google. Edit: I say this because the headline "Cult within Google" is misleading. (I bloody hate Google and everything they stand for - but there's an important distinction to be made)
- dendriti 4y ago
  We call non-religious cults "cliques" now...
- dcow 4y ago
  Costco: a modern cult.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    Partake in the Holy Communion of the Perpetual $1.50 Hot Dog Combo.
    - dcow 4y ago
      Ah, the hot dog tithe. To be raised to $2.50 soonTM.
      - earleybird 4y ago
        "Not so" according to RandomMediaOutletTM[0] [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-positively-is-not-lifting-the-price-of-its-1-50-hot-dog-11653641402 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-pos...
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  > A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. That can also be a guild. "Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft. Also, a guild can't entertain fanciful ideas about their craft for too long, if the ideas don't work in practice. The distinction is kind of like using Cobol to build a good solid system (guild), versus dropping some Lisp to reach enlightenment (cult), or using C to build a solid system (cult). In which case, I'm voting cult all the way.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > "Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft. That might be the modern colloquial use, but I don't think it has much to do with the use of the word "cult" in the study of religion? As I understand the word, you might talk about the cult associated with a particular temple (meaning just local practices, as opposed to more widespread general practices), or the cult associated with the worship of a particular god (meaning beliefs and practices pertaining to that god and his or her worship in specific, such beliefs might be very widespread or might be highly localized), or you might talk about a mystery cult, which is pretty much by definition a widespread phenomenon distinguished by the fact that it has secret teachings unknown to non-initiates. But none of those senses convey any special devotion in comparison to ordinary worship; most of them are ordinary worship.
- cs137 4y ago
  These days the preferred (I hate to call it "politically correct") term for what used to be called a "cult" is NRM: new religious movement. Cult is reserved for the minority that are actually deranged, coercive, and dangerous. Of course, part of the problem is that there are concentric rings, increasingly toxic as one goes higher/closer-in. The outer ring is full of gullible normies who do recruiting and PR, useful idiots who have no idea what's really going on.
- Viliam1234 4y ago
  The dangerous organizations were called "destructive cults" (which suggested the existence of non-destructive ones) in the 80's, but people gradually stopped using the adjective, generalizing it too far. > A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. Yeah, but the exact type of "secrets and opportunities" matters. Sometimes (as mentioned in the article) the secret opportunity is a surprise nonconsensual sex with the group leader.
- ineedasername 4y ago
  It's the nature of those secrets though, isn't it. A small professional organization that keeps a secret list of member reviews of different workplaces, managers, etc is not the same as an organization that keeps occult beliefs a secret, or hides sex trafficking.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  It was more like the 70s. High profile stories included mass suicide at the People's Temple led by Jim Jones [1], Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh collecting Rolls Royces and sexual favours from followers, and of course Charles Manson. [1] Origin of the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid". More than 900 people did, and died. Point being cults are not just a club with a few secrets. Cults are dangerous. They abuse people physically, sexually, psychologically, and financially, and the leaders reliably scam and exploit the followers. Not infrequently there are links to unusually horrific events such as mass murder and mass suicide.
wardedVibe 4y ago
Jesus Christ dude, they're led by a man who routinely sexually assaults people. Being permissive about that is pretty damning. Kooky beliefs are one thing, but cults combine those with oppressive social structures. It's not that hard unless you're stuck in the middle of one with all it's filtering.
- pavlov 4y ago
  So, like Tesla and SpaceX.
  - thedailymail 4y ago
    Actually interested - are there multiple allegations against EM other than the recently reported horse-for-handjob offer?
    - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
      Only one accusation: https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/45a9223a5a878bd90c386109e556ed95-Worlds-Richest-Man-Elon-Musk-Faces-Rape-Allegations-In-Lawsuit-Report https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/45a9223a5a878bd90c386109e55... There are also consistent allegations of an abusive culture at both SpaceX and Tesla: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sexual-harassment-discrimination-engineer-fired https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sex... https://www.businessinsider.com/former-spacex-engineer-intern-sexual-harassment-allegations-criticizes-elon-musk-2021-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-spacex-engineer-inter... https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22835181/tesla-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-six-women https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22835181/tesla-lawsuit-s...
- permo-w 4y ago
  How different is a cult from a corporation, really?
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Having recovered from a high demand religion (which can be considered a modern cult depending on the definition), cults are very different from corporations. I feel like the best definition of a cult is any group that won't let you dissociate with your dignity intact. Most corporations are fine with that. Some aren't. So this suggests substantial differences.
turdit 4y ago
“…they didn't consider it something that needed to be secret… They clearly don't consider themselves to be in any way toxic like the author thinks they are.” so if a guy says “I’m going to rape you” it means he doesn’t think his behavior is toxic? because he’s open about it? brilliant logic

swatcoder 4y ago

The satanic and brainwashing/deprogramming scares of the 80’s changed the way a lot of people use the word, but for the preceding several millennia cult simply suggested: A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. There are millions of these around us, and we’re all probably members of several. It seems to be pretty normal throughout history. We just don’t acknowledge it as such because the word was only fairly recently stigmatized.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
Yes, I think in this context the word "cult" is inappropriate. The word the author was looking for is "clique".
- happyopossum 4y ago
  Umm, members of cliques don't ritually abuse each other - that's a cult thing.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    Okay, more nuance: The shit this "Fellowship of Friends" actually does - that's a cult. I guess wanted to say they're a clique of cult members. The cult is real. The clique is the group within Google (as opposed to there being a cult within Google), I hope that distinction makes sense. I've seen this before. At the BBC. Everyone closed ranks around Jimmy Savile and an organisation called PIE (paedophile information exchange). You were literally told you couldn't say anything about it. But AFAIK the rotten group was small, but powerful. Many, many more decent people work at the BBC. As I'm sure applies to Google. Edit: I say this because the headline "Cult within Google" is misleading. (I bloody hate Google and everything they stand for - but there's an important distinction to be made)
dendriti 4y ago
We call non-religious cults "cliques" now...
dcow 4y ago
Costco: a modern cult.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  Partake in the Holy Communion of the Perpetual $1.50 Hot Dog Combo.
  - dcow 4y ago
    Ah, the hot dog tithe. To be raised to $2.50 soonTM.
    - earleybird 4y ago
      "Not so" according to RandomMediaOutletTM[0] [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-positively-is-not-lifting-the-price-of-its-1-50-hot-dog-11653641402 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-pos...
MonkeyClub 4y ago
> A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. That can also be a guild. "Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft. Also, a guild can't entertain fanciful ideas about their craft for too long, if the ideas don't work in practice. The distinction is kind of like using Cobol to build a good solid system (guild), versus dropping some Lisp to reach enlightenment (cult), or using C to build a solid system (cult). In which case, I'm voting cult all the way.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > "Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft. That might be the modern colloquial use, but I don't think it has much to do with the use of the word "cult" in the study of religion? As I understand the word, you might talk about the cult associated with a particular temple (meaning just local practices, as opposed to more widespread general practices), or the cult associated with the worship of a particular god (meaning beliefs and practices pertaining to that god and his or her worship in specific, such beliefs might be very widespread or might be highly localized), or you might talk about a mystery cult, which is pretty much by definition a widespread phenomenon distinguished by the fact that it has secret teachings unknown to non-initiates. But none of those senses convey any special devotion in comparison to ordinary worship; most of them are ordinary worship.
cs137 4y ago
These days the preferred (I hate to call it "politically correct") term for what used to be called a "cult" is NRM: new religious movement. Cult is reserved for the minority that are actually deranged, coercive, and dangerous. Of course, part of the problem is that there are concentric rings, increasingly toxic as one goes higher/closer-in. The outer ring is full of gullible normies who do recruiting and PR, useful idiots who have no idea what's really going on.
Viliam1234 4y ago
The dangerous organizations were called "destructive cults" (which suggested the existence of non-destructive ones) in the 80's, but people gradually stopped using the adjective, generalizing it too far. > A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members. Yeah, but the exact type of "secrets and opportunities" matters. Sometimes (as mentioned in the article) the secret opportunity is a surprise nonconsensual sex with the group leader.
ineedasername 4y ago
It's the nature of those secrets though, isn't it. A small professional organization that keeps a secret list of member reviews of different workplaces, managers, etc is not the same as an organization that keeps occult beliefs a secret, or hides sex trafficking.
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
It was more like the 70s. High profile stories included mass suicide at the People's Temple led by Jim Jones [1], Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh collecting Rolls Royces and sexual favours from followers, and of course Charles Manson. [1] Origin of the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid". More than 900 people did, and died. Point being cults are not just a club with a few secrets. Cults are dangerous. They abuse people physically, sexually, psychologically, and financially, and the leaders reliably scam and exploit the followers. Not infrequently there are links to unusually horrific events such as mass murder and mass suicide.

wardedVibe 4y ago

Jesus Christ dude, they're led by a man who routinely sexually assaults people. Being permissive about that is pretty damning. Kooky beliefs are one thing, but cults combine those with oppressive social structures. It's not that hard unless you're stuck in the middle of one with all it's filtering.

pavlov 4y ago
So, like Tesla and SpaceX.
- thedailymail 4y ago
  Actually interested - are there multiple allegations against EM other than the recently reported horse-for-handjob offer?
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    Only one accusation: https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/45a9223a5a878bd90c386109e556ed95-Worlds-Richest-Man-Elon-Musk-Faces-Rape-Allegations-In-Lawsuit-Report https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/45a9223a5a878bd90c386109e55... There are also consistent allegations of an abusive culture at both SpaceX and Tesla: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sexual-harassment-discrimination-engineer-fired https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sex... https://www.businessinsider.com/former-spacex-engineer-intern-sexual-harassment-allegations-criticizes-elon-musk-2021-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-spacex-engineer-inter... https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22835181/tesla-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-six-women https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22835181/tesla-lawsuit-s...
permo-w 4y ago
How different is a cult from a corporation, really?
- tomrod 4y ago
  Having recovered from a high demand religion (which can be considered a modern cult depending on the definition), cults are very different from corporations. I feel like the best definition of a cult is any group that won't let you dissociate with your dignity intact. Most corporations are fine with that. Some aren't. So this suggests substantial differences.

turdit 4y ago

“…they didn't consider it something that needed to be secret… They clearly don't consider themselves to be in any way toxic like the author thinks they are.” so if a guy says “I’m going to rape you” it means he doesn’t think his behavior is toxic? because he’s open about it? brilliant logic