4 ms·

As US Road Deaths Rise, France Is Safer Than Ever. Why?

21 points by locallost 4y ago

Thin_icE 4y ago
Having lessons by a professional make a lot of difference. In Europe, not only France, we learn to drive with respect for the rules, and for our fellow drivers.
- tcfhgj 4y ago
  Well, not everywhere in Europe. In Germany people don't, probably because people violating are either tolerated or not punished much compared to other countries. Also controls aren't really common
- aborsy 4y ago
  Come on! Pedestrians don’t respect red lights in Paris and habitually cross them. Motorists and cars frequently pass the red lights, sometimes maneuvering with front wheel raised off the ground (which seems to be a French thing). The driving in EU is violent, even in Germany where racing and high speed driving is in culture. On the contrary, lack of respect for rules is part of the French identity AFAIK https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vb99j1/france_is_so_poor_former_president_chirac_couldnt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vb99j1/france_is_... There are many factors for accidents, a few of them discussed in the article.
  - thecopy 4y ago
    Yet another reason to ban private cars in city centres
    - aborsy 4y ago
      Unfortunately public transportation can be miserable. Homeless will ruin the experience (see how Paris metro and bus stops often smell). It can be dirty, smelly, congested, unreliable, taken hostage by unions that demand unjustified never-ending benefits, not well available outside densely populated areas (even though you pay for it in tax), time consuming (connecting several trains buses back to back in a day), you may share with lots of crazies, etc. I wasted a lot of time and got burned out in the public transportation system. But the experience was better in some cities, eg, in German ones.
      - InCityDreams 4y ago
        >taken hostage by unions that demand unjustified never-ending benefits, Do you have any actual examples?
        aborsy 4y ago
        Famously France, the topic of the article! Unions are powerful and perennially on strike: unsustainable retirement benefits (the topic of the last major strike), income, etc. The income of an unskilled transportation worker is similar to, or even better than, that of a scientist (see CNRS salaries online); the benefits are significant too.
        Glawen 4y ago
        Based on your answer I believe you are french and you never spent significant time in Germany to appreciate German efficiency. During my stay in Germany (6 years), I had to endure a strike on local public transportation every 6 months, combined with a strike of cockpit Union (airplane pilots) every 3 months because they wanted to take control of negotiation. On the other hand there was absolutely nothing going on in France. And when Germany strikes, it is tough. The whole city took their cars, leading to never ending traffic jam. You were faster by bike than by car.
- ByersReason 4y ago
  Either nature or nurture, french drivers and amazingly polite and pleasant to share the road with, certainly in comparison to the bay area, in my experience (Provence).
  - Glawen 4y ago
    And strangely, people from South of France are 2nd worse on road, first place goes of course to Parisian drivers
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
prirun 4y ago
I got slammed into while stopped at an intersection last year. Still dealing with injuries and insurance companies. While I don't know for a fact she was texting, you know what the penalty is in KY for texting while driving? $25. No wonder people ignore the law.
- jmoak3 4y ago
  Hey I’m in KY as well! Driver skill here is something else huh
- vogt 4y ago
  I got blasted by a college-aged girl who was driving ~50 MPH through a red light at 11PM early this year. I credit the Tesla safety systems for my lack of physical injuries. Mentally though, a whole other story. Apart from the witness who was behind me (who was crying and shaking as she approached my car from the trauma of seeing the impact), it didn’t seem like the police or any bystanders gave a shit beyond getting the accident cleared out. I was expecting them to sobriety test her or be ticketed or something, but she hid in her vehicle until her parents showed up and that was that. It was three months until insurance paid out, and we amassed a couple grand worth of debt in rentals so my wife could get to work. That one is on me for not getting the rental coverage, I won’t make that mistake again next time. All this to say, I am certain that driver is back on the road and won’t face any consequences other than a more expensive policy. Just infuriating.
aaron695 4y ago
lizardactivist 4y ago
The headline almost sound like a subtle accusation.
simonblack 4y ago
French culture. Road users have (generally) a more considerate attitude to other users. While I was living in France for about a year, many times I was manoeuvring on a road and blocking it. In Australia and the US, that would be a perfect opportunity for them to blast me with the horn. In France though, the other driver(s) would wait quietly and allow me to finish my procedure. That was a very noticeable thing. It happened so often that I respected it, and took on those attitudes myself, even after I returned home. Another reason is better roads. French roads are (generally) in good condition. US roads, as part of the crumbling national infrastructure, not so much.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
soared 4y ago
Mmmm not a whole lot of actual analysis here despite the question being pretty interesting. If France has been removing cars from city centers, might we get a breakdown of accidents/deaths by urban/suburban/rural over time? Same with cycling - there are cities in the US that have much better cycling infrastructure compared to others, how do those compare? Not mentioned in the article, but I’d be very curious to see how cities where individuals are responsible for sidewalks compared to where governments are. In Denver a homeowner is supposed to repair the sidewalk in front of their home, obviously leading people to walk in the road on rare occasions of extreme disrepair.
bsder 4y ago
1) Cars continue to get bigger in the US. Sigh. Pedestrian accidents in the US are mostly low speed but now you take a full, flat hit rather than crumpling over the hood. And as much as I hate the profiteers, maybe $5/gal gas will finally get some people to pay fscking attention and buy a smaller car. 2) Don't pedestrian accidents almost always bear some fault on the vehicle driver in the EU? That would tend to create a much different set of incentives than in the US where "accidents" are pretty much never considered the fault of the driver unless the driver is completely wasted.
kristianp 4y ago
https://archive.ph/eKOWW https://archive.ph/eKOWW The interviewee, Yonah Freemark wrote two blog posts about his study: https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-traffic-fatalities-rising-what-would-it-take-save-lives https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-traffic-fatalities-risin... https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-could-taxing-heavy-cars-be-first-step-toward-reducing-pedestrian-fatalities https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-could-taxing-heavy-cars-... This is going to be really hard problem for the US to work on. Can you imagine Americans voting to have their cars taxed more, just because they are successful and can afford a nice, big car? Maybe in one state, but not the other 49. Maybe the part about closing off parts of cities to make them safely walkable will be more successful.
troon-lover 4y ago

21 points by locallost 4y ago

Having lessons by a professional make a lot of difference. In Europe, not only France, we learn to drive with respect for the rules, and for our fellow drivers.

tcfhgj 4y ago
Well, not everywhere in Europe. In Germany people don't, probably because people violating are either tolerated or not punished much compared to other countries. Also controls aren't really common
aborsy 4y ago
Come on! Pedestrians don’t respect red lights in Paris and habitually cross them. Motorists and cars frequently pass the red lights, sometimes maneuvering with front wheel raised off the ground (which seems to be a French thing). The driving in EU is violent, even in Germany where racing and high speed driving is in culture. On the contrary, lack of respect for rules is part of the French identity AFAIK https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vb99j1/france_is_so_poor_former_president_chirac_couldnt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vb99j1/france_is_... There are many factors for accidents, a few of them discussed in the article.
- thecopy 4y ago
  Yet another reason to ban private cars in city centres
  - aborsy 4y ago
    Unfortunately public transportation can be miserable. Homeless will ruin the experience (see how Paris metro and bus stops often smell). It can be dirty, smelly, congested, unreliable, taken hostage by unions that demand unjustified never-ending benefits, not well available outside densely populated areas (even though you pay for it in tax), time consuming (connecting several trains buses back to back in a day), you may share with lots of crazies, etc. I wasted a lot of time and got burned out in the public transportation system. But the experience was better in some cities, eg, in German ones.
    - InCityDreams 4y ago
      >taken hostage by unions that demand unjustified never-ending benefits, Do you have any actual examples?
      - aborsy 4y ago
        Famously France, the topic of the article! Unions are powerful and perennially on strike: unsustainable retirement benefits (the topic of the last major strike), income, etc. The income of an unskilled transportation worker is similar to, or even better than, that of a scientist (see CNRS salaries online); the benefits are significant too.
        Glawen 4y ago
        Based on your answer I believe you are french and you never spent significant time in Germany to appreciate German efficiency. During my stay in Germany (6 years), I had to endure a strike on local public transportation every 6 months, combined with a strike of cockpit Union (airplane pilots) every 3 months because they wanted to take control of negotiation. On the other hand there was absolutely nothing going on in France. And when Germany strikes, it is tough. The whole city took their cars, leading to never ending traffic jam. You were faster by bike than by car.
ByersReason 4y ago
Either nature or nurture, french drivers and amazingly polite and pleasant to share the road with, certainly in comparison to the bay area, in my experience (Provence).
- Glawen 4y ago
  And strangely, people from South of France are 2nd worse on road, first place goes of course to Parisian drivers

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

prirun 4y ago

I got slammed into while stopped at an intersection last year. Still dealing with injuries and insurance companies. While I don't know for a fact she was texting, you know what the penalty is in KY for texting while driving? $25. No wonder people ignore the law.

jmoak3 4y ago
Hey I’m in KY as well! Driver skill here is something else huh
vogt 4y ago
I got blasted by a college-aged girl who was driving ~50 MPH through a red light at 11PM early this year. I credit the Tesla safety systems for my lack of physical injuries. Mentally though, a whole other story. Apart from the witness who was behind me (who was crying and shaking as she approached my car from the trauma of seeing the impact), it didn’t seem like the police or any bystanders gave a shit beyond getting the accident cleared out. I was expecting them to sobriety test her or be ticketed or something, but she hid in her vehicle until her parents showed up and that was that. It was three months until insurance paid out, and we amassed a couple grand worth of debt in rentals so my wife could get to work. That one is on me for not getting the rental coverage, I won’t make that mistake again next time. All this to say, I am certain that driver is back on the road and won’t face any consequences other than a more expensive policy. Just infuriating.

aaron695 4y ago

lizardactivist 4y ago

The headline almost sound like a subtle accusation.

simonblack 4y ago

French culture. Road users have (generally) a more considerate attitude to other users. While I was living in France for about a year, many times I was manoeuvring on a road and blocking it. In Australia and the US, that would be a perfect opportunity for them to blast me with the horn. In France though, the other driver(s) would wait quietly and allow me to finish my procedure. That was a very noticeable thing. It happened so often that I respected it, and took on those attitudes myself, even after I returned home. Another reason is better roads. French roads are (generally) in good condition. US roads, as part of the crumbling national infrastructure, not so much.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

soared 4y ago

Mmmm not a whole lot of actual analysis here despite the question being pretty interesting. If France has been removing cars from city centers, might we get a breakdown of accidents/deaths by urban/suburban/rural over time? Same with cycling - there are cities in the US that have much better cycling infrastructure compared to others, how do those compare? Not mentioned in the article, but I’d be very curious to see how cities where individuals are responsible for sidewalks compared to where governments are. In Denver a homeowner is supposed to repair the sidewalk in front of their home, obviously leading people to walk in the road on rare occasions of extreme disrepair.

bsder 4y ago

1) Cars continue to get bigger in the US. Sigh. Pedestrian accidents in the US are mostly low speed but now you take a full, flat hit rather than crumpling over the hood. And as much as I hate the profiteers, maybe $5/gal gas will finally get some people to pay fscking attention and buy a smaller car. 2) Don't pedestrian accidents almost always bear some fault on the vehicle driver in the EU? That would tend to create a much different set of incentives than in the US where "accidents" are pretty much never considered the fault of the driver unless the driver is completely wasted.

kristianp 4y ago

https://archive.ph/eKOWW https://archive.ph/eKOWW The interviewee, Yonah Freemark wrote two blog posts about his study: https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-traffic-fatalities-rising-what-would-it-take-save-lives https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-traffic-fatalities-risin... https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-could-taxing-heavy-cars-be-first-step-toward-reducing-pedestrian-fatalities https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-could-taxing-heavy-cars-... This is going to be really hard problem for the US to work on. Can you imagine Americans voting to have their cars taxed more, just because they are successful and can afford a nice, big car? Maybe in one state, but not the other 49. Maybe the part about closing off parts of cities to make them safely walkable will be more successful.

troon-lover 4y ago