6 ms·

I heard that version 3.0 will be on baremetal, is that true ?

by m00dy 4y ago

jart 4y ago
We're working on improving our bare metal support. Once we embed a TCP/IP stack your redbean will optionally be able to run as its own autonomous operating system with the absolute lowest network latency and minimal attack surface area. It's a idea whose time has come now that everything runs under a hypervisor in the cloud. If the hypervisor is the new operating system, then it'd be nice to not need a second operating system too.
- rank0 4y ago
  I love your work! How do you find the time to work on readbean/ape/etc? I sponsor you on github, but surely donations pale in comparison to what you could earn at an engineering day job. Do you plan on writing your own tcp/ip stack with cosmopolitan? Why not pull in the networking stack and syscall libraries from MirageOS?
  - jart 4y ago
    It's not so much could but have. I used to work at Google Brain. I decided I'd rather be doing this instead. I make it work by living modestly, eating ramen, and avoiding doctors. Thank you for sponsoring me! It helps a lot.
    - eigenvalue 4y ago
      I have really enjoyed your submissions in the past year. Just sponsored you on Github. I feel like your work is of sufficient excellence and utility that you shouldn't need to eat unhealthy food to get by. Have you considered applying for grants from the non-profit arms of big tech companies? I do think that if you can combine Python in redbean in a seamless way, it would really drive adoption and lead to more sponsors for your work. Anyway, thanks for many hours of entertainment watching blinking lights.
      - jart 4y ago
        I'll certainly consider it. Are there any in particular you'd recommend?
        buzzy_hacker 4y ago
        Something different entirely, but look at https://www.mercatus.org/emergent-ventures https://www.mercatus.org/emergent-ventures
        eigenvalue 4y ago
        I don't know much about the subject, but some quick searching leads me to believe that the first step is to create a legal non-profit entity, since that looks to be a requirement for all these big companies to dispense grant money. I think it costs a fair amount of money in fees and legal help to make a 501c3, so maybe you can do a Gofundme to raise the money for that (or ask for help from lawyers). Once you have the entity set up with you and people you trust in control, you can write a basic grant proposal, which wouldn't look that different from the articles you've already written explaining the project and the benefits. Then you can customize this with an addendum that responds to specific questions for each grant request application. And then send it to any organizations you can find that seem like good fits. I'm not a lawyer (and this isn't legal advice), but if you can get enough funding, perhaps you can "hire yourself" as the first contractor to the organization (I don't know if this runs afoul of the rules). I guess it's a lot of work if you've never done it before. Your best bet would be to find someone who has done this a bunch of times (maybe someone associated with the Internet Archive or something) who can help put it together for you.
        jart 4y ago
        Well that might put grants off the table. I'm not starting an NGO. There are better ways for corporations to support our work.
        realitylabs 4y ago
        I’ve been part of over 5 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 startups and unless something drastic has changed in the last few years since COVID, it is not that expensive (well under 1k). Consult with someone who does nonprofit creation and they will let you know what 501(c)X that the effort would best be described as and absolutely shouldn’t break the bank.
- c-linkage 4y ago
  I must be getting old because I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
  - kitd 4y ago
    Why should it be? It's basically a unikernel in a zip file.
    - jart 4y ago
      That's correct. Redbean is already capable of booting on bare metal. We do what we must because we can. The executable file format redbean uses is a DOS Master Boot Record with a partition table, so it's technically a valid disk image you can `dd` too. If you're willing to trade away Windows support, then it can be an EFI image. The main blocker is figuring out how to get an e1000 and/or VirtIO driver in there with a TCP/IP stack. Right now Cosmopolitan bare metal support is only adequate for stdio applications, which use the serial port and read from the zip fs.
      - branon 4y ago
        For the good of all of us! Except the ones who are dead.
        egeozcan 4y ago
        This, and "we do what we must because we can" from the GP are references to the ending credits in Portal, the game, if anyone is wondering.
        csdvrx 4y ago
        Recently, I took this approach to get proper ACPI S01x sleep on my Lenovo X1 Fold (a wonderful device BTW, once you take the time to work around Intel drivers bugs) A battery discharge rate of 0.5%/h in sleep is just great... but I think I can do better: I'm now trying for 0.25%/h. Imagine if you could immediately resume your foldable oled tablet, and it'd have only lost like 6% of the battery. With a 20% hibernate trigger, it would remain immediately available for over 3 days straight!
- moonchild 4y ago
  > minimal attack surface area Just double-checking--it is still written in c?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cyanydeez 4y ago
  Better get your Redbean As A Service business plan going

I heard that version 3.0 will be on baremetal, is that true ?

by m00dy 4y ago

I heard that version 3.0 will be on baremetal, is that true ?

jart 4y ago

We're working on improving our bare metal support. Once we embed a TCP/IP stack your redbean will optionally be able to run as its own autonomous operating system with the absolute lowest network latency and minimal attack surface area. It's a idea whose time has come now that everything runs under a hypervisor in the cloud. If the hypervisor is the new operating system, then it'd be nice to not need a second operating system too.

rank0 4y ago
I love your work! How do you find the time to work on readbean/ape/etc? I sponsor you on github, but surely donations pale in comparison to what you could earn at an engineering day job. Do you plan on writing your own tcp/ip stack with cosmopolitan? Why not pull in the networking stack and syscall libraries from MirageOS?
- jart 4y ago
  It's not so much could but have. I used to work at Google Brain. I decided I'd rather be doing this instead. I make it work by living modestly, eating ramen, and avoiding doctors. Thank you for sponsoring me! It helps a lot.
  - eigenvalue 4y ago
    I have really enjoyed your submissions in the past year. Just sponsored you on Github. I feel like your work is of sufficient excellence and utility that you shouldn't need to eat unhealthy food to get by. Have you considered applying for grants from the non-profit arms of big tech companies? I do think that if you can combine Python in redbean in a seamless way, it would really drive adoption and lead to more sponsors for your work. Anyway, thanks for many hours of entertainment watching blinking lights.
    - jart 4y ago
      I'll certainly consider it. Are there any in particular you'd recommend?
      - buzzy_hacker 4y ago
        Something different entirely, but look at https://www.mercatus.org/emergent-ventures https://www.mercatus.org/emergent-ventures
      - eigenvalue 4y ago
        I don't know much about the subject, but some quick searching leads me to believe that the first step is to create a legal non-profit entity, since that looks to be a requirement for all these big companies to dispense grant money. I think it costs a fair amount of money in fees and legal help to make a 501c3, so maybe you can do a Gofundme to raise the money for that (or ask for help from lawyers). Once you have the entity set up with you and people you trust in control, you can write a basic grant proposal, which wouldn't look that different from the articles you've already written explaining the project and the benefits. Then you can customize this with an addendum that responds to specific questions for each grant request application. And then send it to any organizations you can find that seem like good fits. I'm not a lawyer (and this isn't legal advice), but if you can get enough funding, perhaps you can "hire yourself" as the first contractor to the organization (I don't know if this runs afoul of the rules). I guess it's a lot of work if you've never done it before. Your best bet would be to find someone who has done this a bunch of times (maybe someone associated with the Internet Archive or something) who can help put it together for you.
        jart 4y ago
        Well that might put grants off the table. I'm not starting an NGO. There are better ways for corporations to support our work.
        realitylabs 4y ago
        I’ve been part of over 5 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 startups and unless something drastic has changed in the last few years since COVID, it is not that expensive (well under 1k). Consult with someone who does nonprofit creation and they will let you know what 501(c)X that the effort would best be described as and absolutely shouldn’t break the bank.
c-linkage 4y ago
I must be getting old because I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
- kitd 4y ago
  Why should it be? It's basically a unikernel in a zip file.
  - jart 4y ago
    That's correct. Redbean is already capable of booting on bare metal. We do what we must because we can. The executable file format redbean uses is a DOS Master Boot Record with a partition table, so it's technically a valid disk image you can `dd` too. If you're willing to trade away Windows support, then it can be an EFI image. The main blocker is figuring out how to get an e1000 and/or VirtIO driver in there with a TCP/IP stack. Right now Cosmopolitan bare metal support is only adequate for stdio applications, which use the serial port and read from the zip fs.
    - branon 4y ago
      For the good of all of us! Except the ones who are dead.
      - egeozcan 4y ago
        This, and "we do what we must because we can" from the GP are references to the ending credits in Portal, the game, if anyone is wondering.
        csdvrx 4y ago
        Recently, I took this approach to get proper ACPI S01x sleep on my Lenovo X1 Fold (a wonderful device BTW, once you take the time to work around Intel drivers bugs) A battery discharge rate of 0.5%/h in sleep is just great... but I think I can do better: I'm now trying for 0.25%/h. Imagine if you could immediately resume your foldable oled tablet, and it'd have only lost like 6% of the battery. With a 20% hibernate trigger, it would remain immediately available for over 3 days straight!
moonchild 4y ago
> minimal attack surface area Just double-checking--it is still written in c?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cyanydeez 4y ago
Better get your Redbean As A Service business plan going