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> “Defendants falsely and deceptively claim that Dogecoin is a legitimate investment when it has no value at all,” Johnson said in his complaint, What makes a

by tromp 4y ago

> “Defendants falsely and deceptively claim that Dogecoin is a legitimate investment when it has no value at all,” Johnson said in his complaint, What makes a cryptocurrency a "legitimate investment" ? It clearly is a risky and highly speculative investment, but it's not clear to me what separates legitimate ones from illegitimate ones. Johnson's claim that Dogecoin has no value at all seems rather bogus, as it still trades at well over 1 cent per coin (we can agree it has no "inherent value").

horsawlarway 4y ago
I'd say when the original creator of the "currency" defines it as a joke, and the coin is configured so that ~14.5 million new coins are minted every day... It's safe to consider it illegitimate as an investment. At a minimum, it certainly can't be considered a valid value store, since the amount of currency in circulation inflates at an incredible pace, and without regard to the current value.
- tromp 4y ago
  I strongly disagree. First of all, whether it's 14.5 coins per day or 14,500 or 14.5M or 14.5B doesn't matter at all, since it's just arbitrary scaling (just like how each bitcoin is really 100B satoshi). Secondly, a fixed block subsidy is an entirely reasonable emission schedule, with yearly supply inflation going down at a steady rate, taking 2 decades to drop down to 5% (better than fiat this year), and taking 5 decades to be the 2% that fiat aims for. In fact, there's one serious cryptocurrency that chose exactly such an emission, averaging one coin per second forever. It's the only coin that doesn't have the current generation hog the majority of (soft [1]) total supply... [1] https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-total-supply-1169a188d153 https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-total-su...
  - joshjdr 4y ago
    This comment looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen!
  - randomhodler84 4y ago
    100M sats per BTC my dude
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  No argument that it isn't a scam, but you appear to fundamentally misunderstand the concept of exponential growth. Adding a linear amount to a pool induces an exponentially decaying inflation rate which becomes negligible after a decade or two. As such, dogecoin is the same fomo/'store of value'/deflationary scam as all the other coins, just skewed a little less towards the first suckers to join the ponzi scheme
- Salgat 4y ago
  Can we stop with this disingenuous oversimplified "big number bad" argument? Dogecoin is the only major coin with an intentional long term inflation rate comparable to real world fiat. That has merit and novelty as far as cryptocurrencies go, especially if your goal is for it to be an actual currency.
kayamon 4y ago
I suppose it depends if there's someone manipulating it. A coin like Bitcoin is immune to internal manipulation -- there's one Bitcoin mined every ten minutes, and no one can change that, no matter how much money they have. Satoshi proved that a blockchain is only secure if it's the blockchain with the longest accumulated proof-of-work record. Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter, and they can't win a race where the other players are already ahead. Miners will generally only mine the blockchain with the most value, thus the market for one mining the leading crypto squeezes out the market for mining all the others. Miners must vote with their electricity as to which blockchain to support. No other blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long as Bitcoin exists. The game theory that backs Bitcoin also proves that all other cryptocurrencies cannot work in the long term.
- tromp 4y ago
  > Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter Not only is blockchain length immaterial to its relevancy, but Dogecoin's chain is in fact longer, as its block interval is only 1 minute, so it is asymptotically 10 times longer than Bitcoin. > there's one Bitcoin mined every ten minutes You mean one block (containing an subsidy starting at 50 Bitcoin that's halved every 4 years). > Miners will generally only mine the blockchain with the most value Wrong; SHA256 miners will mine the most profitable SHA256 chain, such as Bitcoin. Scrypt miners have totally different ASICs and will mine the most profitable scrypt chain. > No other blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long as Bitcoin exists. The game theory that backs Bitcoin also proves that all other cryptocurrencies cannot work in the long term. The theory behind Bitcoin long term security is rather shaky in fact, requiring a constant backlog of high-fee paying transactions once its block subsidy becomes insignificant. Chains with a tail emission face no such issues.
  - Salgat 4y ago
    Length doesn't mean much, it's size that matters, and that comes down to total transactions across all blocks, as transactions per block is not some fixed number.
    - 4y ago
suifbwish 4y ago
Most non physical things you are capable of buying have absolutely no value except what gullible people in large numbers ascribe to them. What you really want to invest in are stars, planets and magical items.

by tromp 4y ago

horsawlarway 4y ago

I'd say when the original creator of the "currency" defines it as a joke, and the coin is configured so that ~14.5 million new coins are minted every day... It's safe to consider it illegitimate as an investment. At a minimum, it certainly can't be considered a valid value store, since the amount of currency in circulation inflates at an incredible pace, and without regard to the current value.

tromp 4y ago
I strongly disagree. First of all, whether it's 14.5 coins per day or 14,500 or 14.5M or 14.5B doesn't matter at all, since it's just arbitrary scaling (just like how each bitcoin is really 100B satoshi). Secondly, a fixed block subsidy is an entirely reasonable emission schedule, with yearly supply inflation going down at a steady rate, taking 2 decades to drop down to 5% (better than fiat this year), and taking 5 decades to be the 2% that fiat aims for. In fact, there's one serious cryptocurrency that chose exactly such an emission, averaging one coin per second forever. It's the only coin that doesn't have the current generation hog the majority of (soft [1]) total supply... [1] https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-total-supply-1169a188d153 https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-total-su...
- joshjdr 4y ago
  This comment looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen!
- randomhodler84 4y ago
  100M sats per BTC my dude
Schroedingersat 4y ago
No argument that it isn't a scam, but you appear to fundamentally misunderstand the concept of exponential growth. Adding a linear amount to a pool induces an exponentially decaying inflation rate which becomes negligible after a decade or two. As such, dogecoin is the same fomo/'store of value'/deflationary scam as all the other coins, just skewed a little less towards the first suckers to join the ponzi scheme
Salgat 4y ago
Can we stop with this disingenuous oversimplified "big number bad" argument? Dogecoin is the only major coin with an intentional long term inflation rate comparable to real world fiat. That has merit and novelty as far as cryptocurrencies go, especially if your goal is for it to be an actual currency.

kayamon 4y ago

I suppose it depends if there's someone manipulating it. A coin like Bitcoin is immune to internal manipulation -- there's one Bitcoin mined every ten minutes, and no one can change that, no matter how much money they have. Satoshi proved that a blockchain is only secure if it's the blockchain with the longest accumulated proof-of-work record. Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter, and they can't win a race where the other players are already ahead. Miners will generally only mine the blockchain with the most value, thus the market for one mining the leading crypto squeezes out the market for mining all the others. Miners must vote with their electricity as to which blockchain to support. No other blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long as Bitcoin exists. The game theory that backs Bitcoin also proves that all other cryptocurrencies cannot work in the long term.

tromp 4y ago
> Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter Not only is blockchain length immaterial to its relevancy, but Dogecoin's chain is in fact longer, as its block interval is only 1 minute, so it is asymptotically 10 times longer than Bitcoin. > there's one Bitcoin mined every ten minutes You mean one block (containing an subsidy starting at 50 Bitcoin that's halved every 4 years). > Miners will generally only mine the blockchain with the most value Wrong; SHA256 miners will mine the most profitable SHA256 chain, such as Bitcoin. Scrypt miners have totally different ASICs and will mine the most profitable scrypt chain. > No other blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long as Bitcoin exists. The game theory that backs Bitcoin also proves that all other cryptocurrencies cannot work in the long term. The theory behind Bitcoin long term security is rather shaky in fact, requiring a constant backlog of high-fee paying transactions once its block subsidy becomes insignificant. Chains with a tail emission face no such issues.
- Salgat 4y ago
  Length doesn't mean much, it's size that matters, and that comes down to total transactions across all blocks, as transactions per block is not some fixed number.
  - 4y ago

suifbwish 4y ago

Most non physical things you are capable of buying have absolutely no value except what gullible people in large numbers ascribe to them. What you really want to invest in are stars, planets and magical items.