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> Elizabeth Woodruff drained her retirement account and took on three jobs after she and her husband were sued for nearly $10,000 by the New York hospital where

> Elizabeth Woodruff drained her retirement account and took on three jobs after she and her husband were sued for nearly $10,000 by the New York hospital where his infected leg was amputated. I'm not sure what sort of retirement they had planned to have on less than 10k, but it looks like in this case the hospital knew they could afford to pay but preferred not to. When people use number of jobs rather than hours worked per week it's typically beacuse number of jobs is greater than one and hours is less than forty. > Ariane Buck, a young father in Arizona who sells health insurance, couldn’t make an appointment with his doctor for a dangerous intestinal infection because the office said he had outstanding bills. The emergency room was available to him. What was the total he was asked to pay? Why didn't he pay it? > Allyson Ward and her husband loaded up credit cards, borrowed from relatives, and delayed repaying student loans after the premature birth of their twins left them with $80,000 in debt. Ward, a nurse practitioner, took on extra nursing shifts, working days and nights. Average nurse practitioner salary 115k. Why are they putting medical debt on credit cards? The emergency room wasn't going to stop care to those kids if they didn't pay immediately. If they were poor the kids would get CHIP, so I think they probably had too high income and maybe decided to forgo health insurance and work as contractors for additional pay. What was the plan for the birth? Was the problem that they were early and they didn't have a chance to get insurance at the last second?

alephnan 4y ago
> number of jobs is greater than one and hours is less than forty. It could also be the companies aren't willing to have someone on full-time, because then they'd have to pay for medical and other benefits.
GiorgioG 4y ago
You don't know their whole story, stop judging people from your high horse.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  > You don't know their whole story I'm pretty sure that's on purpose.
ziddoap 4y ago
>Average nurse practitioner salary 115k. Why are they putting medical debt on credit cards? Are you asking why they couldn't afford 70% of an average salary (which, there is a 50% chance this person made less than the average) in one shot? Your entire post seems to be victim blaming based on a few sentences of context. You don't know what other debts and obligations these people had, nor what other avenues they tried to exercise.
- culopatin 4y ago
  Maybe what they are asking is how someone making an average of 115k, who is also in healthcare doesn’t have better health coverage and still decides to have a kid.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    The American Dream. Must make 115k+ (what is that, 2x or 3x the average American?) and pay out the ass for coverage just so you can have the privilege of having a kid without being judged by random people on the internet.
    - culopatin 4y ago
      I’ve made much less than 115k for most of my working life and I never had such shitty coverage. I don’t agree that having twins or whatever should be 80k, don’t get me wrong. But if you’re in healthcare and make enough to have a decent plan and choose not to, and on top of that you decide to have kid/s, you know what you’re getting into. At 38k a year I had a max out of pocket of 7k. It can be done. It’s as if I opened a web server in my home with all the ports open, a password that is “changeme” and then complained that someone else should’ve been protecting me.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    She wouldn't of had any coverage at all. Obamacare puts the out of pocket max well below 80k. At that income level and field, that's a choice. Is the idea that I'm supposed to pick up the tab or feel sorry for her? I make less than she does and I pay for my health insurance.
tomjakubowski 4y ago
Your entire post is really rather uncharitable and judgmental towards these people but, anyway: > Why are they putting medical debt on credit cards? Doesn't say they did - reads to me like they built up debt on the credit card with regular living expenses while servicing the medical debt.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Medical debt is very low recourse. If you don't pay your electric bill they shut the power off, they won't unamputate your leg if you fail to pay. If you don't have substantial assets, taking the credit hit is the better choice. I can't envision a situation where it makes sense to trade low recourse medical debt for high recourse credit card debt.
lostcolony 4y ago
From both the context and the picture it's clear she's not actually, you know, retiring. The amount in someone's retirement account is meaningless unless you know their age and their income. Yeah, $10k isn't a lot if you're in your 60s and living a lifestyle that costs 6+ figures a year; it's a lot if you're making $30k a year and are in your 20s, and quite understandable if in your 30s at that income level. Three jobs are quoted because yeah, they probably are part time (and just saying "works 60 hours a week" or whatever doesn't carry the same punch), but -they may not be able to get a full time job-. Or else...you know, they might have healthcare. The emergency room has ludicrously high costs, and none of his medical history. You're literally saying "don't expect to be able to see your primary care provider, go to the emergency room instead" -because of existing debt-. You're making a lot of assumptions...all of which miss the point. Why is life shattering medical debt a common thing we tolerate in this country, given every other Western country has managed to make it a rarity? But, to your assumptions - maybe and she gave birth prematurely and ended up being seen by a hospital who were out of network and her insurance didn't cover it. Or even went to an in-network hospital, but was seen by doctors who were out of network, as frequently can happen, especially in emergencies when you can't personally vet the doctor is in network for you before you see them. Certainly, something unexpected happened (maybe even the pregnancy itself! Something to look forward to with the Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v Wade), and insurance wasn't there. Why is that acceptable in this country?
- willcipriano 4y ago
  I work in healthcare and grew up poor in the US, and had medical debt of my own so I can read between the lines here. People absolutely get screwed over by medical debt, I'm just saying these are terrible examples of that happening.
fmakunbound 4y ago
Oh boy, think you might be living in a bubble.
sahila 4y ago
> When people use number of jobs rather than hours worked per week it's typically beacuse number of jobs is greater than one and hours is less than forty. It’s hard to imagine a person wanting to take on multiple jobs if instead they had the option to work one for the needed amount of hours and pay. Hours at one job != hours at three jobs, especially when you add in commuting time and lack of benefits because you’re not full time.

alephnan 4y ago

> number of jobs is greater than one and hours is less than forty. It could also be the companies aren't willing to have someone on full-time, because then they'd have to pay for medical and other benefits.

GiorgioG 4y ago

You don't know their whole story, stop judging people from your high horse.

willcipriano 4y ago
> You don't know their whole story I'm pretty sure that's on purpose.

ziddoap 4y ago

>Average nurse practitioner salary 115k. Why are they putting medical debt on credit cards? Are you asking why they couldn't afford 70% of an average salary (which, there is a 50% chance this person made less than the average) in one shot? Your entire post seems to be victim blaming based on a few sentences of context. You don't know what other debts and obligations these people had, nor what other avenues they tried to exercise.

culopatin 4y ago
Maybe what they are asking is how someone making an average of 115k, who is also in healthcare doesn’t have better health coverage and still decides to have a kid.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  The American Dream. Must make 115k+ (what is that, 2x or 3x the average American?) and pay out the ass for coverage just so you can have the privilege of having a kid without being judged by random people on the internet.
  - culopatin 4y ago
    I’ve made much less than 115k for most of my working life and I never had such shitty coverage. I don’t agree that having twins or whatever should be 80k, don’t get me wrong. But if you’re in healthcare and make enough to have a decent plan and choose not to, and on top of that you decide to have kid/s, you know what you’re getting into. At 38k a year I had a max out of pocket of 7k. It can be done. It’s as if I opened a web server in my home with all the ports open, a password that is “changeme” and then complained that someone else should’ve been protecting me.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  She wouldn't of had any coverage at all. Obamacare puts the out of pocket max well below 80k. At that income level and field, that's a choice. Is the idea that I'm supposed to pick up the tab or feel sorry for her? I make less than she does and I pay for my health insurance.

tomjakubowski 4y ago

Your entire post is really rather uncharitable and judgmental towards these people but, anyway: > Why are they putting medical debt on credit cards? Doesn't say they did - reads to me like they built up debt on the credit card with regular living expenses while servicing the medical debt.

willcipriano 4y ago
Medical debt is very low recourse. If you don't pay your electric bill they shut the power off, they won't unamputate your leg if you fail to pay. If you don't have substantial assets, taking the credit hit is the better choice. I can't envision a situation where it makes sense to trade low recourse medical debt for high recourse credit card debt.

lostcolony 4y ago

From both the context and the picture it's clear she's not actually, you know, retiring. The amount in someone's retirement account is meaningless unless you know their age and their income. Yeah, $10k isn't a lot if you're in your 60s and living a lifestyle that costs 6+ figures a year; it's a lot if you're making $30k a year and are in your 20s, and quite understandable if in your 30s at that income level. Three jobs are quoted because yeah, they probably are part time (and just saying "works 60 hours a week" or whatever doesn't carry the same punch), but -they may not be able to get a full time job-. Or else...you know, they might have healthcare. The emergency room has ludicrously high costs, and none of his medical history. You're literally saying "don't expect to be able to see your primary care provider, go to the emergency room instead" -because of existing debt-. You're making a lot of assumptions...all of which miss the point. Why is life shattering medical debt a common thing we tolerate in this country, given every other Western country has managed to make it a rarity? But, to your assumptions - maybe and she gave birth prematurely and ended up being seen by a hospital who were out of network and her insurance didn't cover it. Or even went to an in-network hospital, but was seen by doctors who were out of network, as frequently can happen, especially in emergencies when you can't personally vet the doctor is in network for you before you see them. Certainly, something unexpected happened (maybe even the pregnancy itself! Something to look forward to with the Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v Wade), and insurance wasn't there. Why is that acceptable in this country?

willcipriano 4y ago
I work in healthcare and grew up poor in the US, and had medical debt of my own so I can read between the lines here. People absolutely get screwed over by medical debt, I'm just saying these are terrible examples of that happening.

fmakunbound 4y ago

Oh boy, think you might be living in a bubble.

sahila 4y ago

> When people use number of jobs rather than hours worked per week it's typically beacuse number of jobs is greater than one and hours is less than forty. It’s hard to imagine a person wanting to take on multiple jobs if instead they had the option to work one for the needed amount of hours and pay. Hours at one job != hours at three jobs, especially when you add in commuting time and lack of benefits because you’re not full time.