9 ms·

What do you learn in 1500 hours? That's almost a year of work. I understand that surgeons apprentice for years, but what's the logic here?

azekai 4y ago
Protectionism, nothing more.
- avereveard 4y ago
  Barber combines a lot of chemicals on top of people head/face. Just because you don't see them as knowledge worker doesn't mean they can work uneducated.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    1500 hours is beyond overkill for barber training. No ones saying they should be untrained, only reasonably trained.
  - jachee 4y ago
    Also razor-sharp blades and high-powered electric trimmers. Plus it’s people’s hair/beards which can have a profound impact on their appearance and thus their mental state. All good reasons to train from “can succeed” to “cannot fail.” Edit: Case in point: https://reddit.com/r/funny/comments/vdnocs/went_to_a_new_barber_asked_for_my_part_to_be_cut/ https://reddit.com/r/funny/comments/vdnocs/went_to_a_new_bar...
    - treeman79 4y ago
      There are a couple of states where your not allowed to pump your own gas. Somehow the rest of the states don’t have exploding gas stations problems. Lawmakers must think we are like Zoolander
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      Sounds like a reason for a risk adverse person to look at yelp reviews, not institute a government mandate.
    - anm89 4y ago
      Yeah I'd really move this up to require a 4 year degree. 8000 hours would feel a lot safer.
  - monkeybutton 4y ago
    Teenagers manage to figure it out just fine by reading the back of a box/bottle.
    - avereveard 4y ago
      Truly you should know the different implications on doing things on one own heads instead of on the head of someone else, and the difference in scale between doing it vocationally when needed and doing it all day every working day, so I don't understand why even bring the teenager example up.
  - jjkaczor 4y ago
    Chemicals being hair/face/skin products (sprays, gells, shaving cream, creams/moisturizers) which are commercially produced, tested and sold at retail/wholesale? Yes, they need to be knowledgable (growth patterns/directions, skin issues that may cause complications, hair-loss aware haircuts), but 3-times the training as a police officer, really? To be a Rhode Island State Trooper, it is a "grueling" 24-week program... https://risp.ri.gov/academy/trooper https://risp.ri.gov/academy/trooper Maybe prior to the 19th-century, when barbers were also surgeons and dentists that would be a minimal amount of training - but that is no longer the case.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - avereveard 4y ago
      > tested and sold at retail/wholesale? Not all of them are. Also, a company can sustain lawsuit differently and has access to better documentation to defend its products. Also, you're responsible to follow dosages when you apply them by your own, but the barber is when applying them on you.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      >but 3-times the training as a police officer, really? This is a crummy comparison, because the problem isn't that barbers get too much training (maybe they do) but that police officers get very little training.
    - cardiffspaceman 4y ago
      I thought the headline was, it's too easy to be a police officer.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > which are commercially produced, tested and sold at retail/wholesale? That doesn't mean they won't kill you -> try drinking bleach or pesticides for demostic plants, both avaliable at the nearest supermarket. Barber chemicals can give you skin burns or render you partially bilnd. That's mostly female products though, being a men's barber is typically simpler. that being said, most of UK has no special lisence for barbers -> just need to follow health and safety and have insurance. https://www.gov.uk/register-a-hairdressing-business https://www.gov.uk/register-a-hairdressing-business
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Seems reasonable to cover in a single day class and test
    - avereveard 4y ago
      "I don't know it so it should be easy"
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I've done training on handling acids that will eat right through your flesh, chemicals that make deadly gases, and how to handle biohazards like live HIV, and all were less than a day. Yeah, I think it should be easy.
        avereveard 4y ago
        Such an elitist view. I can play that game too: "they train you not to touch things? Must be super easy, don't touch the thing." "it's super easy not to touch the thing, we have to make chemicals touch people face safely, we don't have the luxury of just not letting the face not touch the chemical"
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        If the instructions fit on a two pages [1] and people can do it at home with no training, I think they should be able to to cover it in a day certification for professionals. https://africasbesthair.com/wp-content/uploads/AB-Instruction-Sheet-r2.pdf https://africasbesthair.com/wp-content/uploads/AB-Instructio...
        avereveard 4y ago
        That's the instructions set for one product. Now enter a barber shop and start counting. You also need to know all the interactions between products, and between products and skin, and between product and skin in the context of the goal of the sitting client, which might want a color point in between two tints with reflex of another.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- cardiffspaceman 4y ago
  Hairstylists at the walk-up-only places that say they do a "super" job often put caustic chemicals on clients where the chemicals don't belong and don't clean it up as they go. The client will be somewhat more comfortable at a better salon. Box color from a drug store is very mild and doesn't last as long, so DIY is not great. Hair straightening chemistry "from Brazil" is so hard-core that pregnant women feel the need to avoid the area (or salon). So not only does the required training matter, there is a huge correlation between what you pay and what it's like.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
withinboredom 4y ago
My wife is a hair stylist. - chemistry for mixing color (actually pretty complicated and depends from person to person. If you’ve ever gotten your hair colored, they have a record of your exact formula + notes). - being able to look at random photos people bring in and reconstruct the cut on your head with your hair texture and curl characteristics. - actually making you look good. - learning how to use straight razor without slitting your throat. - learning how to do all of this within a set amount of time to fit in more clients per day. She made over $100k per year before we left the states. Her men’s cuts were like $40 or something, I’m not sure, I never paid for it, but it was more than $30. Either way, it is the best haircut I’ve ever had — she can spot “cheap” cuts a mile away (one of our first date talking points, actually). If you want to not look cheap from a distance, get a real haircut at a real barber or salon. It took her nearly 15 years to get to that level, but she could name her price by that point and people would pay.
- chipsa 4y ago
  Chemistry? yeah, that should have training. Straight Razor? probably should have training. The other three? that's mostly practice. So why 1500 hours of training, and not like, 160, and have the rest be on the job?
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Do you really need an answer? Go get your haircut for free at a school where people are training. ;) They’re pretty good for the price. You can only cut someone’s hair about once every six weeks, and you can’t undo a mistake. That person has to walk around with your mistake for weeks. — my wife
    - quesera 4y ago
      It's a reasonable argument, for a certain level of training at least. But as a counterpoint, it looks like getting a tattoo artist license in Rhode Island requires only a health test and a few hundred dollars.
    - withinboredom 4y ago

azekai 4y ago

Protectionism, nothing more.

avereveard 4y ago
Barber combines a lot of chemicals on top of people head/face. Just because you don't see them as knowledge worker doesn't mean they can work uneducated.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  1500 hours is beyond overkill for barber training. No ones saying they should be untrained, only reasonably trained.
- jachee 4y ago
  Also razor-sharp blades and high-powered electric trimmers. Plus it’s people’s hair/beards which can have a profound impact on their appearance and thus their mental state. All good reasons to train from “can succeed” to “cannot fail.” Edit: Case in point: https://reddit.com/r/funny/comments/vdnocs/went_to_a_new_barber_asked_for_my_part_to_be_cut/ https://reddit.com/r/funny/comments/vdnocs/went_to_a_new_bar...
  - treeman79 4y ago
    There are a couple of states where your not allowed to pump your own gas. Somehow the rest of the states don’t have exploding gas stations problems. Lawmakers must think we are like Zoolander
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Sounds like a reason for a risk adverse person to look at yelp reviews, not institute a government mandate.
  - anm89 4y ago
    Yeah I'd really move this up to require a 4 year degree. 8000 hours would feel a lot safer.
- monkeybutton 4y ago
  Teenagers manage to figure it out just fine by reading the back of a box/bottle.
  - avereveard 4y ago
    Truly you should know the different implications on doing things on one own heads instead of on the head of someone else, and the difference in scale between doing it vocationally when needed and doing it all day every working day, so I don't understand why even bring the teenager example up.
- jjkaczor 4y ago
  Chemicals being hair/face/skin products (sprays, gells, shaving cream, creams/moisturizers) which are commercially produced, tested and sold at retail/wholesale? Yes, they need to be knowledgable (growth patterns/directions, skin issues that may cause complications, hair-loss aware haircuts), but 3-times the training as a police officer, really? To be a Rhode Island State Trooper, it is a "grueling" 24-week program... https://risp.ri.gov/academy/trooper https://risp.ri.gov/academy/trooper Maybe prior to the 19th-century, when barbers were also surgeons and dentists that would be a minimal amount of training - but that is no longer the case.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - avereveard 4y ago
    > tested and sold at retail/wholesale? Not all of them are. Also, a company can sustain lawsuit differently and has access to better documentation to defend its products. Also, you're responsible to follow dosages when you apply them by your own, but the barber is when applying them on you.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    >but 3-times the training as a police officer, really? This is a crummy comparison, because the problem isn't that barbers get too much training (maybe they do) but that police officers get very little training.
  - cardiffspaceman 4y ago
    I thought the headline was, it's too easy to be a police officer.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > which are commercially produced, tested and sold at retail/wholesale? That doesn't mean they won't kill you -> try drinking bleach or pesticides for demostic plants, both avaliable at the nearest supermarket. Barber chemicals can give you skin burns or render you partially bilnd. That's mostly female products though, being a men's barber is typically simpler. that being said, most of UK has no special lisence for barbers -> just need to follow health and safety and have insurance. https://www.gov.uk/register-a-hairdressing-business https://www.gov.uk/register-a-hairdressing-business
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Seems reasonable to cover in a single day class and test
  - avereveard 4y ago
    "I don't know it so it should be easy"
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I've done training on handling acids that will eat right through your flesh, chemicals that make deadly gases, and how to handle biohazards like live HIV, and all were less than a day. Yeah, I think it should be easy.
      - avereveard 4y ago
        Such an elitist view. I can play that game too: "they train you not to touch things? Must be super easy, don't touch the thing." "it's super easy not to touch the thing, we have to make chemicals touch people face safely, we don't have the luxury of just not letting the face not touch the chemical"
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        If the instructions fit on a two pages [1] and people can do it at home with no training, I think they should be able to to cover it in a day certification for professionals. https://africasbesthair.com/wp-content/uploads/AB-Instruction-Sheet-r2.pdf https://africasbesthair.com/wp-content/uploads/AB-Instructio...
        avereveard 4y ago
        That's the instructions set for one product. Now enter a barber shop and start counting. You also need to know all the interactions between products, and between products and skin, and between product and skin in the context of the goal of the sitting client, which might want a color point in between two tints with reflex of another.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cardiffspaceman 4y ago
Hairstylists at the walk-up-only places that say they do a "super" job often put caustic chemicals on clients where the chemicals don't belong and don't clean it up as they go. The client will be somewhat more comfortable at a better salon. Box color from a drug store is very mild and doesn't last as long, so DIY is not great. Hair straightening chemistry "from Brazil" is so hard-core that pregnant women feel the need to avoid the area (or salon). So not only does the required training matter, there is a huge correlation between what you pay and what it's like.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

withinboredom 4y ago

My wife is a hair stylist. - chemistry for mixing color (actually pretty complicated and depends from person to person. If you’ve ever gotten your hair colored, they have a record of your exact formula + notes). - being able to look at random photos people bring in and reconstruct the cut on your head with your hair texture and curl characteristics. - actually making you look good. - learning how to use straight razor without slitting your throat. - learning how to do all of this within a set amount of time to fit in more clients per day. She made over $100k per year before we left the states. Her men’s cuts were like $40 or something, I’m not sure, I never paid for it, but it was more than $30. Either way, it is the best haircut I’ve ever had — she can spot “cheap” cuts a mile away (one of our first date talking points, actually). If you want to not look cheap from a distance, get a real haircut at a real barber or salon. It took her nearly 15 years to get to that level, but she could name her price by that point and people would pay.

chipsa 4y ago
Chemistry? yeah, that should have training. Straight Razor? probably should have training. The other three? that's mostly practice. So why 1500 hours of training, and not like, 160, and have the rest be on the job?
- withinboredom 4y ago
  Do you really need an answer? Go get your haircut for free at a school where people are training. ;) They’re pretty good for the price. You can only cut someone’s hair about once every six weeks, and you can’t undo a mistake. That person has to walk around with your mistake for weeks. — my wife
  - quesera 4y ago
    It's a reasonable argument, for a certain level of training at least. But as a counterpoint, it looks like getting a tattoo artist license in Rhode Island requires only a health test and a few hundred dollars.
  - withinboredom 4y ago