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> The average salary for experienced barbers was $42,187, while those new to the field earned $19,042 on average. These are the examples of when I think societ

> The average salary for experienced barbers was $42,187, while those new to the field earned $19,042 on average. These are the examples of when I think society, overall, makes no sense. How come this is how it works and that there are barbers at all?

overcast 4y ago
Probably because like most service jobs, unreported tips.
- macinjosh 4y ago
  IMHO it is everyone's duty as Americans to tip only in cash by handing it directly to the person who served you. Any other way the business owner, other employees, the government, and even the banks will try to get in between and take a piece. For example, I have zero faith all the the tip money you send through the Starbucks or Door Dash app actually makes it into the pocket of the laborer. I consider tips to be small personal gifts to thank someone for what they've done for me. It is nobody's business but mine and the recipient's.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Sad part about this is that a “DoorDash tip” is more of a “bid for a dasher to take my order,” so if it ever seems like you get low quality dasher, that may be why.
    - hellisothers 4y ago
      Do dashers really see the tip before accepting?
      - treeman79 4y ago
        https://youtube.com/shorts/SpEfWSMRJJ8?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/SpEfWSMRJJ8?feature=share Apparently it’s a big thing of “no tip, no trip”.
      - RC_ITR 4y ago
        They see 'estimated earnings' which is a combination of tip+base service fees, but obviously the higher the tip the better the 'estimated earnings'
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    > It is nobody's business but mine and the recipient's. So if I tip via CC, you agree it's not your business to tell me off?
    - qbrass 4y ago
      By tipping via CC, you've already involved at least 3 other entities and no longer have the reasonable expectation of privacy that provides tipper/tipee confidentiality.
  - IMTDb 4y ago
    Basically you are justifying the existence of a parallel economy that avoids taxes and regulations and that can only benefit people with customer facing positions. Amazing. How about forbidding all tips, and fixing the economy to ensure that this money goes into the hand of all employees - not just the customer facing ones but also the one working behind the scene - and that this amount gets properly taxed so that social services can be provided to everyone ?
    - troupe 4y ago
      If medicare or social security has more commitments than there is income to fund, 100% enforcement of taxes on tips isn't going to fix the issue.
      - BeetleB 4y ago
        Strawman.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      >How about forbidding all tips, and fixing the economy to ensure that this money goes into the hand of all employees - How about de-taxing and de-regulating the other economy? Why is it the tipped workers who have to make the compromise? They're not exactly on top of the world to begin with.
  - taylorfinley 4y ago
    Be aware that even tips handed directly in cash will usually be pooled and split with the back of house and others. I worked at a coffee shop where the manager would take a share of tips. I asked her how her share was calculated and she said she just takes whatever she feels is fair based on how much she helped out the front of house that day. All our cash tips were pooled and we got them as part of our paycheck. Compared to any other coffee shop I worked at my tips were terrible there, I would make in two weeks what I would usually pull in a shift or two anywhere else.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I appreciate the cinism and 'taking back control', but if I eat at a restraraunt, I want to tip the cheff -> this way I only give money to the waiter?
zbrozek 4y ago
I don't know, but occupational licensing is right up there with zoning law and civil forfeiture for my most-hated aspects of Americanism.
- chipsa 4y ago
  Don't forget qualified and absolute immunity.
- boplicity 4y ago
  I don't know -- there's pretty lax zoning in Ohio. You can drive for hours and be constantly surrounded by strip malls. It's pretty much a hellhole. In other words: There's a reason for zoning. The U.S. is actually pretty lax, on average, in terms of zoning compared to some other parts of the world, though it is certainly a state-by-state thing. It's really not fair to lump zoning in with things like civil forfeiture.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >It's really not fair to lump zoning in with things like civil forfeiture. The common theme is that they're both massive affronts to property rights.
  - seoaeu 4y ago
    Strip malls are generally one story buildings with tons of parking. They’re exactly the sort of thing that even very strict zoning codes allow. If you instead checked how much of the state allowed 6-story apartment buildings, you’d come to a very different conclusion. Doubly so if the building didn’t have a massive parking lot.
    - ABCLAW 4y ago
      > They’re exactly the sort of thing that even very strict zoning codes allow. My experience working with commercial real estate leads me to believe that your experience with strip malls is driving your consideration here. Strict or Not Strict don't encompass what zoning does. Different jurisdictions deal with the issue in significantly different ways. Plenty of urban locations do not allow for strip-mall style commercial plazas that aren't also mid-rise buildings. You wouldn't find a strip mall in an area zoned for heavy industrial use, or a place zoned for a residential subdivision - strict or not strict doesn't come into the picture.
lucozade 4y ago
> How come this is how it works and that there are barbers at all? At a guess, I'd have thought it was at the behest of the incumbent barber community. If they can also control who gets to do the training eg if the practical aspects have to occur in Rhode Island barber shops, then they have a de facto closed shop. Always handy for a business to be able to prevent competition.
mc32 4y ago
I think they first rent a chair from an established barber and make little; once they have experience they open their own shop and start renting out chairs to other apprentice barbers.
mrandish 4y ago
> How come this is how it works This is an example of regulatory capture through licensing. It's bad for consumers, bad for the economy, bad for job-seekers and only good for a small handful of incumbents and politicians.
corrral 4y ago
I don't get the part that's not making sense. Do you think the salary's too low? Sure as shit beats roofing. Won't wreck your knees and back like the trades or concrete work or framing. Industry as a whole's less of a sausage fest than those are, which may be a perk (I dunno, I'm not a barber). Regular hours, no asshole managers or inhumane algorithms deciding you need to commute in for an extra 4-hour late evening shift outside your usual working hours at your fast food job. It's social. You get to be indoors, in air conditioning. You work at one place, don't have to drive all over to get to job sites. Slightly creative but the work largely goes on autopilot once you're good at it, I expect, which in my experience makes time fly. Slow days might suck because you're not making as much money, but if your station's clean & ready I assume you can read or chat or whatever and don't have to pretend to be working, which is draining. Might be (I do not know) easier to get into than a lot of jobs, if you have a criminal record. Nobody makes you factor numbers or solve quadratic equations before being allowed to do it (college algebra—not even calculus—kills a lot of college degree attempts). There's some kind of fairly well-worn path toward starting your own business. Median household income in the US was under $70,000 in 2019. Two adults pulling down $42,000 means you're doing better than median.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Teever 4y ago
  > Sure as shit beats roofing. Won't wreck your knees and back like the trades or concrete work or framing. Industry as a whole's less of a sausage fest than those are, which may be a perk (I dunno, I'm not a barber). Every woman I've ever known who worked in a salon quit after a few years due to RSI issues in their hands.
mathgladiator 4y ago
Generally speaking, men have similar quick hair cuts that cost $10. Contrast to stylists for women, and boom 100% more money on the bottom end.

overcast 4y ago

Probably because like most service jobs, unreported tips.

macinjosh 4y ago
IMHO it is everyone's duty as Americans to tip only in cash by handing it directly to the person who served you. Any other way the business owner, other employees, the government, and even the banks will try to get in between and take a piece. For example, I have zero faith all the the tip money you send through the Starbucks or Door Dash app actually makes it into the pocket of the laborer. I consider tips to be small personal gifts to thank someone for what they've done for me. It is nobody's business but mine and the recipient's.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  Sad part about this is that a “DoorDash tip” is more of a “bid for a dasher to take my order,” so if it ever seems like you get low quality dasher, that may be why.
  - hellisothers 4y ago
    Do dashers really see the tip before accepting?
    - treeman79 4y ago
      https://youtube.com/shorts/SpEfWSMRJJ8?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/SpEfWSMRJJ8?feature=share Apparently it’s a big thing of “no tip, no trip”.
    - RC_ITR 4y ago
      They see 'estimated earnings' which is a combination of tip+base service fees, but obviously the higher the tip the better the 'estimated earnings'
- BeetleB 4y ago
  > It is nobody's business but mine and the recipient's. So if I tip via CC, you agree it's not your business to tell me off?
  - qbrass 4y ago
    By tipping via CC, you've already involved at least 3 other entities and no longer have the reasonable expectation of privacy that provides tipper/tipee confidentiality.
- IMTDb 4y ago
  Basically you are justifying the existence of a parallel economy that avoids taxes and regulations and that can only benefit people with customer facing positions. Amazing. How about forbidding all tips, and fixing the economy to ensure that this money goes into the hand of all employees - not just the customer facing ones but also the one working behind the scene - and that this amount gets properly taxed so that social services can be provided to everyone ?
  - troupe 4y ago
    If medicare or social security has more commitments than there is income to fund, 100% enforcement of taxes on tips isn't going to fix the issue.
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      Strawman.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >How about forbidding all tips, and fixing the economy to ensure that this money goes into the hand of all employees - How about de-taxing and de-regulating the other economy? Why is it the tipped workers who have to make the compromise? They're not exactly on top of the world to begin with.
- taylorfinley 4y ago
  Be aware that even tips handed directly in cash will usually be pooled and split with the back of house and others. I worked at a coffee shop where the manager would take a share of tips. I asked her how her share was calculated and she said she just takes whatever she feels is fair based on how much she helped out the front of house that day. All our cash tips were pooled and we got them as part of our paycheck. Compared to any other coffee shop I worked at my tips were terrible there, I would make in two weeks what I would usually pull in a shift or two anywhere else.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  I appreciate the cinism and 'taking back control', but if I eat at a restraraunt, I want to tip the cheff -> this way I only give money to the waiter?

zbrozek 4y ago

I don't know, but occupational licensing is right up there with zoning law and civil forfeiture for my most-hated aspects of Americanism.

chipsa 4y ago
Don't forget qualified and absolute immunity.
boplicity 4y ago
I don't know -- there's pretty lax zoning in Ohio. You can drive for hours and be constantly surrounded by strip malls. It's pretty much a hellhole. In other words: There's a reason for zoning. The U.S. is actually pretty lax, on average, in terms of zoning compared to some other parts of the world, though it is certainly a state-by-state thing. It's really not fair to lump zoning in with things like civil forfeiture.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >It's really not fair to lump zoning in with things like civil forfeiture. The common theme is that they're both massive affronts to property rights.
- seoaeu 4y ago
  Strip malls are generally one story buildings with tons of parking. They’re exactly the sort of thing that even very strict zoning codes allow. If you instead checked how much of the state allowed 6-story apartment buildings, you’d come to a very different conclusion. Doubly so if the building didn’t have a massive parking lot.
  - ABCLAW 4y ago
    > They’re exactly the sort of thing that even very strict zoning codes allow. My experience working with commercial real estate leads me to believe that your experience with strip malls is driving your consideration here. Strict or Not Strict don't encompass what zoning does. Different jurisdictions deal with the issue in significantly different ways. Plenty of urban locations do not allow for strip-mall style commercial plazas that aren't also mid-rise buildings. You wouldn't find a strip mall in an area zoned for heavy industrial use, or a place zoned for a residential subdivision - strict or not strict doesn't come into the picture.

lucozade 4y ago

> How come this is how it works and that there are barbers at all? At a guess, I'd have thought it was at the behest of the incumbent barber community. If they can also control who gets to do the training eg if the practical aspects have to occur in Rhode Island barber shops, then they have a de facto closed shop. Always handy for a business to be able to prevent competition.

mc32 4y ago

I think they first rent a chair from an established barber and make little; once they have experience they open their own shop and start renting out chairs to other apprentice barbers.

mrandish 4y ago

> How come this is how it works This is an example of regulatory capture through licensing. It's bad for consumers, bad for the economy, bad for job-seekers and only good for a small handful of incumbents and politicians.

corrral 4y ago

I don't get the part that's not making sense. Do you think the salary's too low? Sure as shit beats roofing. Won't wreck your knees and back like the trades or concrete work or framing. Industry as a whole's less of a sausage fest than those are, which may be a perk (I dunno, I'm not a barber). Regular hours, no asshole managers or inhumane algorithms deciding you need to commute in for an extra 4-hour late evening shift outside your usual working hours at your fast food job. It's social. You get to be indoors, in air conditioning. You work at one place, don't have to drive all over to get to job sites. Slightly creative but the work largely goes on autopilot once you're good at it, I expect, which in my experience makes time fly. Slow days might suck because you're not making as much money, but if your station's clean & ready I assume you can read or chat or whatever and don't have to pretend to be working, which is draining. Might be (I do not know) easier to get into than a lot of jobs, if you have a criminal record. Nobody makes you factor numbers or solve quadratic equations before being allowed to do it (college algebra—not even calculus—kills a lot of college degree attempts). There's some kind of fairly well-worn path toward starting your own business. Median household income in the US was under $70,000 in 2019. Two adults pulling down $42,000 means you're doing better than median.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Teever 4y ago
> Sure as shit beats roofing. Won't wreck your knees and back like the trades or concrete work or framing. Industry as a whole's less of a sausage fest than those are, which may be a perk (I dunno, I'm not a barber). Every woman I've ever known who worked in a salon quit after a few years due to RSI issues in their hands.

mathgladiator 4y ago

Generally speaking, men have similar quick hair cuts that cost $10. Contrast to stylists for women, and boom 100% more money on the bottom end.