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Agreed. It's turned into a very fun and interesting side project for me. In particular, the Atlantis story in Plato's Timaeus is historically written off as i

Agreed. It's turned into a very fun and interesting side project for me. In particular, the Atlantis story in Plato's Timaeus is historically written off as intentional myth, despite the literal claims to the opposite in the text. If taken as a historical account, it tells of an unprecedented impact, conflagration and deluge within a millennium of the YDIE. "Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals... For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was [preeminent]." The following story tells of a large land in the middle of the Atlantic that sank after the conflagration and deluge. The invasion of the Sea Peoples from the direction of the Atlantic, and the establishment of cities by the remnants of these times. These would used to seem preposterous, before the discovery of the by-far oldest megalithic site at Göbekli Tepe 9500-8000BCE, the same dates given for the founding of Athens and Sais in Timaeus. There's a great literature review channel on YT: [Prehistory Decoded](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx11KXwumf5w8J-GdBGKNVA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx11KXwumf5w8J-GdBGKNVA) And here's some resources I've developed: [The Story of Atlantis](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQbm3QNHnYD5xDwDjZXm1M8il_69Opq9aRSKwi_29ic/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQbm3QNHnYD5xDwDjZXm1M8i...) [Comparative Energies of Catastrophic Events](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14EslUTRCwOgc_EobxH6X5e01uVGxN1N58gC-mZlbBac/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/14EslUTRCwOgc_EobxH6X5e01...)

bitcurious 4y ago
The invasions of the Sea People was closer to us in time than the Younger Dryas was to them. The timeline just doesn’t work.
- pmayrgundter 4y ago
  Sorry, yes, I don't mean the invasions during the Bronze Age[1]. I have wondered though if the generic name for them suggests a general origin of the remnants of the Atlantic civilizations that were perhaps destroyed from the YDIE [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples EDIT: yeah fair, I hadn't read thoroughly on them. They're too far away in time to be reasonably related.
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    The generic name for them comes from... the fact that they are identified (in contemporary written sources) as coming in boats. Trying to hypothesize instead that the name comes from their link to Atlantis fails Occam's Razor hard.
jcranmer 4y ago
> The invasion of the Sea Peoples from the direction of the Atlantic, and the establishment of cities by the remnants of these times. The Sea Peoples (at least, those involved in the ravaging of the Hittites and the Egyptians) appear to have come from the vicinity of the Aegean Sea, although the Mycenaean collapse would suggest that they do not originate there. (At the same time, there's no actual written documentary evidence of Mycenaean collapse; that it was caused by the invasion of the Sea Peoples is informed by archaeological evidence of a discontinuity in material culture that happens at about the same time the Egyptians and Hittites are reeling from the Sea Peoples. It's actually consistent with the evidence that displaced Mycenaean peoples are the Sea Peoples as recorded in Egyptian stelae. There is 0 evidence that the Sea Peoples came from the Atlantic or anywhere other than the Eastern Mediterranean. It's also worth remembering that the Younger Dryas occurred c. 10,000 BC, while the invasion of the Sea Peoples happens c. 1,200 BC. That is, the Sea Peoples happened closer in time to the present than it did to the Younger Dryas.
Maursault 4y ago
> If taken as a historical account, it tells of an unprecedented impact, conflagration and deluge within a millennium of the YDIE. More likely, Timeaus describes the destruction of Santorini, c.1600BC (we can't trust Plato's dating, just that it occurred in the distant past). Plato's "Pillars of Heracles" would have been describing a place other than Gibraltar, (the earliest reference of which is 600BC in Peisander's Heracleia (fixing the number of Hercules labors at twelve), yet the Greeks were unaware of the Atlantic Ocean until the voyages of Pytheas ~330BC, during Plato's lifetime, suggesting another location for the Pillars). The destruction of Santorini also neatly explains the Ten Plagues of Egypt described in Exodus. [1] https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/10/new-findings-on-santorini-point-to-lost-island-of-atlantis-origins/ https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/10/new-findings-on-santori...
- osiris-with-ED 4y ago
  How would you explain the presence of landmasses corresponding to the Atlantis myth that can be found in the Azores plateau? Additionally, the legend itself was recovered from Egypt, so whether or not the Greeks had knowledge of the Atlantic would have no bearing on if the Egyptians (or, more importantly, the people who were their progenitors) had this knowledge.
  - simonh 4y ago
    There are many dozens of theorised locations for Atlantis, tye Azores is only one and not a particularly compelling one over any of the others IMHO. The Egyptians at that period and before were far, far worse sailors and navigators than the Greeks, or pretty much anyone else. I really wouldn’t trust anything they would say about distant geography or navigation.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      An Egyptian expedition sailed all the way around Africa, starting at the Red Sea and returning via the South Atlantic, taking three years. They reported the sun on their right as they rounded the Cape, which was taken as proof of fabrication, to the ancients. Egyptians achieved a great many impressive things, over millennia, the overwhelming majority of which we have little or no record of.
tastyfreeze 4y ago
A follow-on hypothesis to the YD impact hypothesis is Atlantis existing exactly where Plato's Timaeus describes. West of the Pillars of Heracles in the middle of the Atlantic. That describes the Azores. If the YDB hypothesis is correct and immense amounts of ice were removed quickly the spheroid of Earth would change shape dramatically. The previously ice covered areas rebound up and areas that were squeezed out subside. Couple isostatic rebound with immense amounts of meltwater and it is possible that the Azores plateau was above sea level despite now being under 2000 meters of water. Of course there isnt much evidence to support this hypothesis and it is dependent on the YDB impact hypothesis being correct. But, I found the possibility to be intriguing. I demonstrated the idea of isostatic rebound to my kids by squeezing a balloon describing my hands as the ice pressing on the land. The bulges between my hands are areas not covered by ice. When my hands are removed the bulges disappear as previously covered areas bounce back up and squeezed out areas drop down.
- osiris-with-ED 4y ago
  Excellent point. Please note that the Egyptians referred to the objects in the solar system as egg shaped. This sybolism survives in the memphis-misraim masonic rites, but they are considered clandestine and independent from mainstream masonry, reader beware.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > West of the Pillars of Heracles in the middle of the Atlantic. The fatal mistake here is that in ancient Greece, the Pillars of Heracles was definitely not Gibraltar, and Egyptians would not have employed Greek myths. The Greeks had no knowledge of Gibraltar nor the Atlantic Ocean until decades after Plato wrote Timaeus. It was only centuries later that Gibraltar became known by that moniker. Plato was talking about another location in the Aegean, close to Greece, that his readers would have been familiar with, unlike Gibraltar.

bitcurious 4y ago

The invasions of the Sea People was closer to us in time than the Younger Dryas was to them. The timeline just doesn’t work.

pmayrgundter 4y ago
Sorry, yes, I don't mean the invasions during the Bronze Age[1]. I have wondered though if the generic name for them suggests a general origin of the remnants of the Atlantic civilizations that were perhaps destroyed from the YDIE [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples EDIT: yeah fair, I hadn't read thoroughly on them. They're too far away in time to be reasonably related.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  The generic name for them comes from... the fact that they are identified (in contemporary written sources) as coming in boats. Trying to hypothesize instead that the name comes from their link to Atlantis fails Occam's Razor hard.

jcranmer 4y ago

> The invasion of the Sea Peoples from the direction of the Atlantic, and the establishment of cities by the remnants of these times. The Sea Peoples (at least, those involved in the ravaging of the Hittites and the Egyptians) appear to have come from the vicinity of the Aegean Sea, although the Mycenaean collapse would suggest that they do not originate there. (At the same time, there's no actual written documentary evidence of Mycenaean collapse; that it was caused by the invasion of the Sea Peoples is informed by archaeological evidence of a discontinuity in material culture that happens at about the same time the Egyptians and Hittites are reeling from the Sea Peoples. It's actually consistent with the evidence that displaced Mycenaean peoples are the Sea Peoples as recorded in Egyptian stelae. There is 0 evidence that the Sea Peoples came from the Atlantic or anywhere other than the Eastern Mediterranean. It's also worth remembering that the Younger Dryas occurred c. 10,000 BC, while the invasion of the Sea Peoples happens c. 1,200 BC. That is, the Sea Peoples happened closer in time to the present than it did to the Younger Dryas.

Maursault 4y ago

> If taken as a historical account, it tells of an unprecedented impact, conflagration and deluge within a millennium of the YDIE. More likely, Timeaus describes the destruction of Santorini, c.1600BC (we can't trust Plato's dating, just that it occurred in the distant past). Plato's "Pillars of Heracles" would have been describing a place other than Gibraltar, (the earliest reference of which is 600BC in Peisander's Heracleia (fixing the number of Hercules labors at twelve), yet the Greeks were unaware of the Atlantic Ocean until the voyages of Pytheas ~330BC, during Plato's lifetime, suggesting another location for the Pillars). The destruction of Santorini also neatly explains the Ten Plagues of Egypt described in Exodus. [1] https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/10/new-findings-on-santorini-point-to-lost-island-of-atlantis-origins/ https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/10/new-findings-on-santori...

osiris-with-ED 4y ago
How would you explain the presence of landmasses corresponding to the Atlantis myth that can be found in the Azores plateau? Additionally, the legend itself was recovered from Egypt, so whether or not the Greeks had knowledge of the Atlantic would have no bearing on if the Egyptians (or, more importantly, the people who were their progenitors) had this knowledge.
- simonh 4y ago
  There are many dozens of theorised locations for Atlantis, tye Azores is only one and not a particularly compelling one over any of the others IMHO. The Egyptians at that period and before were far, far worse sailors and navigators than the Greeks, or pretty much anyone else. I really wouldn’t trust anything they would say about distant geography or navigation.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    An Egyptian expedition sailed all the way around Africa, starting at the Red Sea and returning via the South Atlantic, taking three years. They reported the sun on their right as they rounded the Cape, which was taken as proof of fabrication, to the ancients. Egyptians achieved a great many impressive things, over millennia, the overwhelming majority of which we have little or no record of.

tastyfreeze 4y ago

A follow-on hypothesis to the YD impact hypothesis is Atlantis existing exactly where Plato's Timaeus describes. West of the Pillars of Heracles in the middle of the Atlantic. That describes the Azores. If the YDB hypothesis is correct and immense amounts of ice were removed quickly the spheroid of Earth would change shape dramatically. The previously ice covered areas rebound up and areas that were squeezed out subside. Couple isostatic rebound with immense amounts of meltwater and it is possible that the Azores plateau was above sea level despite now being under 2000 meters of water. Of course there isnt much evidence to support this hypothesis and it is dependent on the YDB impact hypothesis being correct. But, I found the possibility to be intriguing. I demonstrated the idea of isostatic rebound to my kids by squeezing a balloon describing my hands as the ice pressing on the land. The bulges between my hands are areas not covered by ice. When my hands are removed the bulges disappear as previously covered areas bounce back up and squeezed out areas drop down.

osiris-with-ED 4y ago
Excellent point. Please note that the Egyptians referred to the objects in the solar system as egg shaped. This sybolism survives in the memphis-misraim masonic rites, but they are considered clandestine and independent from mainstream masonry, reader beware.
Maursault 4y ago
> West of the Pillars of Heracles in the middle of the Atlantic. The fatal mistake here is that in ancient Greece, the Pillars of Heracles was definitely not Gibraltar, and Egyptians would not have employed Greek myths. The Greeks had no knowledge of Gibraltar nor the Atlantic Ocean until decades after Plato wrote Timaeus. It was only centuries later that Gibraltar became known by that moniker. Plato was talking about another location in the Aegean, close to Greece, that his readers would have been familiar with, unlike Gibraltar.