3 ms·

Only recently?

maccard 4y ago
yes. I live in Scotland and am not a conservative voter but through the Cameron/May days I found myself in disbelief but the current PM and government are playing the trump playbook
- ploppyploppy 4y ago
  Sturgeon is doing the same thing. Towing the Globalist/Neo-Liberal playbook. Allowed to get away with stoking nationalist ideology because she's pro-EU. Which reminds me - how is independence for Scotland a meaningful pursuit if you'll immediately attempt to join the EU?
  - maccard 4y ago
    > Sturgeon is doing the same thing. Towing the Globalist/Neo-Liberal playbook. Allowed to get away with stoking nationalist ideology because she's pro-EU. She is definitely stoking nationalist ideology, but she is absolutely not towing the neo liberal playbook. Scotland is consistently pushing in the opposite direciton of the England in the areas that would come under the neo liberal agenda. She's also not taking the same plays as the UK government by doing things like trying to leave the ECHR to ship 1000 migrants to rwanda, and she's not taken the Trump play of "if I have enough scandals, none of them will stick". > Which reminds me - how is independence for Scotland a meaningful pursuit if you'll immediately attempt to join the EU? The Scottish government have published a document [0] which explains it, but the key point is this (from the linked document) But the point is this: in an independent Scotland, crucial decision-making power will rest with the people who live here – not with Westminster governments that do not command the support of people in Scotland, and which pursue policies, for example, Brexit, that are deeply damaging to Scotland's interests. Westminster has shown repeatedly since indyref that it's interests are _not_ aligned with Holyrood's interests. Using the Brexit vote as an example, there was a supermajority for remaining in Scotland, with every region in scotland voting to remain [1], and yet here we are. In the UK general election in 2019, Scotland overwhelmingly voted for the SNP [2] and the only conservative seats are the lizard support who will vote blue even if it was Sturgeon running for the Conservatives. Meanwhile, England voted for a majority Conservative government, in direct opposition to what Scotland voted for and wants. The argument for Scotland leaving the UK isn't "we want to join the EU", it's "we don't agree with the direction the rest of the union is going in, we're still open to working together but we want to work with you, not for you". [0] https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/ https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-... [1] https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum/eu-referendum-results-region-scotland https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-w... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_el...
RugnirViking 4y ago
The Uk was a pretty decent place up until around 2008, now its much further along the train of stripping back every function of government than even the US. The entire media is in the government's pocket, we even had a literal conspiracy to intentionally lose elections from members of labour.[1][2][3] Unlike the US, even the police departments don't escape cutbacks... [1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-r... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/06/labour-report-misused-private-messages-portray-members-racist https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/06/labour-repo... [3]: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/leaked-dossier-shows-labour-party-officials-worked-against-corbyn-in-a-bid-to-lose-2017-general-election-184264/ https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/leaked-dossier-sh...
- was_a_dev 4y ago
  I wasn't of voting age in 2008 (14 years ago). The state of the UK goverement has been in a constant decline from my perspective

Only recently?

yes. I live in Scotland and am not a conservative voter but through the Cameron/May days I found myself in disbelief but the current PM and government are playing the trump playbook

ploppyploppy 4y ago
Sturgeon is doing the same thing. Towing the Globalist/Neo-Liberal playbook. Allowed to get away with stoking nationalist ideology because she's pro-EU. Which reminds me - how is independence for Scotland a meaningful pursuit if you'll immediately attempt to join the EU?
- maccard 4y ago
  > Sturgeon is doing the same thing. Towing the Globalist/Neo-Liberal playbook. Allowed to get away with stoking nationalist ideology because she's pro-EU. She is definitely stoking nationalist ideology, but she is absolutely not towing the neo liberal playbook. Scotland is consistently pushing in the opposite direciton of the England in the areas that would come under the neo liberal agenda. She's also not taking the same plays as the UK government by doing things like trying to leave the ECHR to ship 1000 migrants to rwanda, and she's not taken the Trump play of "if I have enough scandals, none of them will stick". > Which reminds me - how is independence for Scotland a meaningful pursuit if you'll immediately attempt to join the EU? The Scottish government have published a document [0] which explains it, but the key point is this (from the linked document) But the point is this: in an independent Scotland, crucial decision-making power will rest with the people who live here – not with Westminster governments that do not command the support of people in Scotland, and which pursue policies, for example, Brexit, that are deeply damaging to Scotland's interests. Westminster has shown repeatedly since indyref that it's interests are _not_ aligned with Holyrood's interests. Using the Brexit vote as an example, there was a supermajority for remaining in Scotland, with every region in scotland voting to remain [1], and yet here we are. In the UK general election in 2019, Scotland overwhelmingly voted for the SNP [2] and the only conservative seats are the lizard support who will vote blue even if it was Sturgeon running for the Conservatives. Meanwhile, England voted for a majority Conservative government, in direct opposition to what Scotland voted for and wants. The argument for Scotland leaving the UK isn't "we want to join the EU", it's "we don't agree with the direction the rest of the union is going in, we're still open to working together but we want to work with you, not for you". [0] https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/ https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-... [1] https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum/eu-referendum-results-region-scotland https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-w... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_el...

RugnirViking 4y ago

The Uk was a pretty decent place up until around 2008, now its much further along the train of stripping back every function of government than even the US. The entire media is in the government's pocket, we even had a literal conspiracy to intentionally lose elections from members of labour.[1][2][3] Unlike the US, even the police departments don't escape cutbacks... [1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-r... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/06/labour-report-misused-private-messages-portray-members-racist https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/06/labour-repo... [3]: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/leaked-dossier-shows-labour-party-officials-worked-against-corbyn-in-a-bid-to-lose-2017-general-election-184264/ https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/leaked-dossier-sh...

was_a_dev 4y ago
I wasn't of voting age in 2008 (14 years ago). The state of the UK goverement has been in a constant decline from my perspective