4 ms·

I can definitely say that for me, this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. I am turning my back on the .NET ecosystem, after having written C# for 7 year

I can definitely say that for me, this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. I am turning my back on the .NET ecosystem, after having written C# for 7 years. The `dotnet watch` debacle from last year, still having key parts like the debugger closed-source and now again with this: It's just too much. I do not want to build anything of value on top of such a shady platform that's completely controlled by one Megacorporation. It's too big of a risk. No matter how many MVPs tout "MS <3 Open Source", how can anyone still believe them after these repeated violations?

Swinx43 4y ago
The problem with MVPs is that they are effectively Microsoft sponsored marketing outlets. I know a few of them personally and they are great people but damn have they drunk the kool-aid.
- oaiey 4y ago
  To a degree where they are pointless as a consumer but also pointless as an input gatherer. MVP are pointless.
unhammer 4y ago
is `dotnet watch` basically `git ls-files|entr dotnet build` ? (entr is http://eradman.com/entrproject/ http://eradman.com/entrproject/ – like inotifywait but easier)
- klysm 4y ago
  It may as well be. It can do some legit hot reload, but the set of scenarios where it works is so small it’s effectively useless.
  - exyi 4y ago
    Yea, the drama occurred when it was in preview, so we all thought it's going to have real hot-reload capability as we know from webdev.
- ygra 4y ago
  I think it also replaces the running code on the fly.
- JamesSwift 4y ago
  No, it has a lot of bytecode level intelligence to surgically replace the parts of the program that need replaced (as I understand it). Your version just re-runs the project from scratch whenever a change occurs.
gigel82 4y ago
.NET was open sourced in 2016, that's 6 years ago. It looks like you were 1+ years fully within the ecosystem before any part of it was OSS, and now you're demanding new features they write get open sourced as well? Reminds of that time they introduced WiFi on planes; it was a brand new thing, and they let folks on the flight use it for free - but of course being a new tech it broke down after about an hour. There was this guy on the flight making a big fuss about the WiFi stopping working, like truly upset and vocal about it. Dude, how are you owed something you didn't even know existed an hour ago?
- croes 4y ago
  They replace an existing open source feature with a closed source one. So that's totally different.
  - gigel82 4y ago
    No they don't, they give you a choice between the existing open source solution and a new closed source one.
- visose 4y ago
  I agree with this sentiment, but you forgot to credit Louis CK for the anecdote you borrowed.
  - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
    He should steal material from less well-known comedians. That's what the pros do.
  - gigel82 4y ago
    Ah, a connoisseur! :)
aljarry 4y ago
It's not only that debugger is closed-source - if you try to run non-MS provided build of VS Code, the .Net debugger would decline to start. That was very surprising, after installing VS Code on ubuntu from some default package.

Swinx43 4y ago

The problem with MVPs is that they are effectively Microsoft sponsored marketing outlets. I know a few of them personally and they are great people but damn have they drunk the kool-aid.

oaiey 4y ago
To a degree where they are pointless as a consumer but also pointless as an input gatherer. MVP are pointless.

unhammer 4y ago

is `dotnet watch` basically `git ls-files|entr dotnet build` ? (entr is http://eradman.com/entrproject/ http://eradman.com/entrproject/ – like inotifywait but easier)

klysm 4y ago
It may as well be. It can do some legit hot reload, but the set of scenarios where it works is so small it’s effectively useless.
- exyi 4y ago
  Yea, the drama occurred when it was in preview, so we all thought it's going to have real hot-reload capability as we know from webdev.
ygra 4y ago
I think it also replaces the running code on the fly.
JamesSwift 4y ago
No, it has a lot of bytecode level intelligence to surgically replace the parts of the program that need replaced (as I understand it). Your version just re-runs the project from scratch whenever a change occurs.

gigel82 4y ago

.NET was open sourced in 2016, that's 6 years ago. It looks like you were 1+ years fully within the ecosystem before any part of it was OSS, and now you're demanding new features they write get open sourced as well? Reminds of that time they introduced WiFi on planes; it was a brand new thing, and they let folks on the flight use it for free - but of course being a new tech it broke down after about an hour. There was this guy on the flight making a big fuss about the WiFi stopping working, like truly upset and vocal about it. Dude, how are you owed something you didn't even know existed an hour ago?

croes 4y ago
They replace an existing open source feature with a closed source one. So that's totally different.
- gigel82 4y ago
  No they don't, they give you a choice between the existing open source solution and a new closed source one.
visose 4y ago
I agree with this sentiment, but you forgot to credit Louis CK for the anecdote you borrowed.
- UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
  He should steal material from less well-known comedians. That's what the pros do.
- gigel82 4y ago
  Ah, a connoisseur! :)

aljarry 4y ago

It's not only that debugger is closed-source - if you try to run non-MS provided build of VS Code, the .Net debugger would decline to start. That was very surprising, after installing VS Code on ubuntu from some default package.