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This is exactly the same as what MS did for the Python extension when the open-source LSP was replaced by the proprietary Pylance. I get the feeling that MS bec
by chenzhekl 4y ago
This is exactly the same as what MS did for the Python extension when the open-source LSP was replaced by the proprietary Pylance. I get the feeling that MS becomes more and more likes Google. For example, on Android, the core experience is provided by GMS while the AOSP is provided as an open-source core. In terms of VSCode, the core editor is free and open-source, but some key experience is baked by proprietary components (e.g., Remote plugins, Pylance, etc.). And the trending is that more and more plugins which are controlled by MS are moving towards to a mixture of open-source code and proprietary components.
- pjmlp 4y agoIt appears offering free beer forever isn't sustainable, even when one has deep pockets, go figure.
- mhh__ 4y agoSustainable and optimal are different. For a company like Microsoft at least.
- pjmlp 4y agoShareware and Public Domain are back with a different name, many still haven't gotten it.
- throwaway2048 4y agoI somehow doubt that Microsoft has any pressing need to return profits from the python LSP
- pjmlp 4y agoIt gets to share the same code with Visual Studio proper.
- thejosh 4y agoYep, they saw no real backlash to doing this for the Python one, then decided to do it here as well.
- fhkaQ 4y agoOf course not. Python is in the hands of people with a mixed contribution history (to say the least) who want to preserve their jobs at Google, Microsoft, RedHat etc. The rest of the Python "community" does as they are told. They are not in a position to voice dissent, unlike de Icaza, who has a great programming record and courage.
- pedro2 4y agoI sympathyze with Icaza because he does a lot of stuff. His reaction is unexpected though -- after all this is the playbook FSF is always warning as a possible path. He must have been aware of the possible paths and the fear of them when Novell was trying to bring C# onto Linux / Gnome.
- oaiey 4y agoIcaza is a financially made man. He can do what he likes!
- pronik 4y agoBecause most people continued to use VSCode and didn't notice. Other LSP users' communities noticed, but were too small to make a vocal impact.
- rtpg 4y agoThe LSP situation with Python was very frustrating, because it totally breathes the oxygen out of "proper" OSS implementations. I feel like with a _loooot_ of coordination it should be possible to have proper, open source LSP implementations that are very performant. Mainly a question of finding enough people willing to fund this work, because it's definitely work! I personally also have gripes about ending up with some JS thing to do constant parsing and processing of files.... but I don't have anything to back it up.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoIndeed. And even very intelligent, competent AND benevolent MS employees downplay this: https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1537357261554733056 https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1537357261554733056 Steve cannot see how it will lead to attrition or vendor lock in. It's not that there are no good people at MS, but the internal marketting is strong as well.
- toyg 4y ago"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
- Spivak 4y agoI'm having a hard time finding the flaw with this logic, I use pyright but not pylance every day in Neovim and am not locked in at all. Making "the LSP sever that leverages pyright" closed source sucks but is far from the end of the world. If the complaint is that pyright could eventually become non-OSS well that's true of everything.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoIt's about the VSCode ecosystems becoming more and more close source to accomodate the dev env as a service strat while using the FOSS root of vscode for PR that deserved to be underlined.
- 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- EdwardDiego 4y agoWhy didn't MS just contribute to the existing one, instead of writing its own from scratch?
- formerly_proven 4y agoImperialism, basically. Contributing to open source means you don't wholly own the project you contributed to, and that constrains what you can do with it.
- jsmeaton 4y agoThe existing one was an open source Microsoft project. Then they built a new closed-source version as a replacement. To be fair, pylance is orders of magnitude better with regards to performance. But I just don’t get what the reasoning was to make pylance closed source. It’s baffling.
- lin83 4y agoI believe the previous Python support extension started out as an independent open source project until Microsoft hired its main developer. > It’s baffling. Vendor Lock in? Same reason you can't use the VSCode marketplace of mostly open source extensions on a non-Microsoft build of VSCode or any of the remote work features.
- jsmeaton 4y agoThe Python extension itself is not closed source and is still maintained by the original developer that MS hired. It’s the language server that went from an OSS Microsoft project (that replaced the initial Jedi server) to the closed source LSP server. Lock in doesn’t make sense to me. The main competition is Pycharm which has its own set of tooling. I can somewhat understand the remote extensions being closed source considering they need to interface with a server. It makes no sense for Python. My guess is that Pylance is also used within Visual Studio proper, and the VS product owners are pushing for closed addons.
- 4y ago
- bmitc 4y ago> And the trending is that more and more plugins which are controlled by MS are moving towards to a mixture of open-source code and proprietary components. Other than this fact, what is the effect, supposedly detrimental?
- akagusu 4y agoSorry to say, but it is not like M$ is becoming more like Google. Google learnt their playbook from M$. What you and others are seeing here is M$ at its best, playing like they always played, but without the "we love open-source" mask.
- camdenreslink 4y agoJust for balance, Pylance is proprietary but the core of it is the Pyright library which is completely open (see: https://github.com/microsoft/pyright https://github.com/microsoft/pyright). It would be nice if they were more transparent about the differences between the two and why Pylance is closed. There are a few github issues where Microsoft PMs basically stonewall the community with very little info.