4 ms·

Users might think to themselves, I give my credit card number to all kinds of sites; how is this any different? The internet has kind of conditioned all of us

by giaour 4y ago

Users might think to themselves, I give my credit card number to all kinds of sites; how is this any different? The internet has kind of conditioned all of us to be OK with passing around complex payment instruments without paying too much attention. If you're a hardcore believer in cryptocurrency as a political project, you almost certainly understand the difference and see the "code is law" dark forest as a feature, not a bug. But if you started buying crypto and NFTs because Matt Damon and Larry David told you to, then you're in for a world of hurt.

jensvdh 4y ago
Because credit cards have consumer protection and laws and regulations. Crypto has none of that.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  The crypto space is rediscovering the financial system from first principals. At least by the end they can hopefully appreciate that the original government controlled system actually works the way it does for a reason.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    The crypto space isn't rediscovering anything. Speculative investors and other noobs are discovering cryptocurrency for the first time.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      All of these scams, crashes, and exploits are things that happens previously with regular currencies and have since been regulated away. Now crypto comes in with unregulated currency and runs in to every issue the regulations existed to prevent.
      - cowtools 4y ago
        These scams, crashes, are exploits are non-issues to anyone with a reasonable degree of competence and skepticism. The solution is not to "fix" the system by removing user agency so that even an idiot can use it safely, but to educate users so that an idiot doesn't need to use cryptocurrency in the first place. This criticism of cryptocurrency would be analogous to criticizing the concept of fiat currency by pointing to the inflation of the deutsche mark as an example. The cryptocurrencies being discussed here are real cryptocurrencies, they are bloated and useless shitcoins. Any credible project would not have all the bloated crap that enables the "exploits" mentioned in the article in the first place.
        Gigachad 4y ago
        It's pretty well known that individuals _do_ need protections against this while institutional investors do not. When crypto gets on the news, regular, uninformed people go and dump their life savings in to it. No matter how much you tut tut and say they should have done their research, they will still do it. And preventing people from losing their life savings on scams is good for society in general.
        cowtools 4y ago
        No. If you invest your money in something you do not understand, you deserve to lose it. I'm sorry you think that you need some authority to put their thumb on the scale and tell you what you can and can't do with your own money.
        chowells 4y ago
        Why do you believe that victims should be punished? Wouldn't it be more compassionate to recover their losses and punish the perpetrators? Trust shouldn't be seen as a weakness. Trust powers all the best things humans can do. Trust should be rewarded, not punished.
        cowtools 4y ago
  - rodgerd 4y ago
    > At least by the end they can hopefully appreciate that the original government controlled system actually works the way it does for a reason. "A religion cannot fail, it can only be failed"; I admire your optimism, but I expect that the true believers will not question whether the premise of cryptocurrencies is wrong, but rather will twist themselves in knots to find new scapegoats as to why it doesn't work the way they expected.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      Huh? Cryptocurrencies operate just as expected, basically the same as they did ten years ago. Crypto never changed, the users did.
- cowtools 4y ago
  Credit cards wouldn't need such stringent "protection" and surveilance if they were secure and dependable in the first place. Of course cryptocurrencies do not have such regulations. the purpose of cryptocurrency is to facilitate exchange with untrusted parties.
  - kahnclusions 4y ago
    The point is that cryptocurrencies are not secure nor dependable in the way that people actually need them to be, and they don’t solve any of the actual problems that people have with the banking and credit system.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      Cryptocurrencies are secure and dependable in the way that I need them to be and they solve problems that I have with the banking and credit system. I mean, really. The security of the banking/credit system is not even based on public/private key cryptography. There is no notion of a separate spend address vs a sending address. Anyone with access to your (usually open source or easily findable) information can make a transaction on your behalf. Identity theft is a massive problem which is enabled by the current state of the industry.

by giaour 4y ago

jensvdh 4y ago

Because credit cards have consumer protection and laws and regulations. Crypto has none of that.

Gigachad 4y ago
The crypto space is rediscovering the financial system from first principals. At least by the end they can hopefully appreciate that the original government controlled system actually works the way it does for a reason.
- cowtools 4y ago
  The crypto space isn't rediscovering anything. Speculative investors and other noobs are discovering cryptocurrency for the first time.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    All of these scams, crashes, and exploits are things that happens previously with regular currencies and have since been regulated away. Now crypto comes in with unregulated currency and runs in to every issue the regulations existed to prevent.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      These scams, crashes, are exploits are non-issues to anyone with a reasonable degree of competence and skepticism. The solution is not to "fix" the system by removing user agency so that even an idiot can use it safely, but to educate users so that an idiot doesn't need to use cryptocurrency in the first place. This criticism of cryptocurrency would be analogous to criticizing the concept of fiat currency by pointing to the inflation of the deutsche mark as an example. The cryptocurrencies being discussed here are real cryptocurrencies, they are bloated and useless shitcoins. Any credible project would not have all the bloated crap that enables the "exploits" mentioned in the article in the first place.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        It's pretty well known that individuals _do_ need protections against this while institutional investors do not. When crypto gets on the news, regular, uninformed people go and dump their life savings in to it. No matter how much you tut tut and say they should have done their research, they will still do it. And preventing people from losing their life savings on scams is good for society in general.
        cowtools 4y ago
        No. If you invest your money in something you do not understand, you deserve to lose it. I'm sorry you think that you need some authority to put their thumb on the scale and tell you what you can and can't do with your own money.
        chowells 4y ago
        Why do you believe that victims should be punished? Wouldn't it be more compassionate to recover their losses and punish the perpetrators? Trust shouldn't be seen as a weakness. Trust powers all the best things humans can do. Trust should be rewarded, not punished.
        cowtools 4y ago
- rodgerd 4y ago
  > At least by the end they can hopefully appreciate that the original government controlled system actually works the way it does for a reason. "A religion cannot fail, it can only be failed"; I admire your optimism, but I expect that the true believers will not question whether the premise of cryptocurrencies is wrong, but rather will twist themselves in knots to find new scapegoats as to why it doesn't work the way they expected.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    Huh? Cryptocurrencies operate just as expected, basically the same as they did ten years ago. Crypto never changed, the users did.
cowtools 4y ago
Credit cards wouldn't need such stringent "protection" and surveilance if they were secure and dependable in the first place. Of course cryptocurrencies do not have such regulations. the purpose of cryptocurrency is to facilitate exchange with untrusted parties.
- kahnclusions 4y ago
  The point is that cryptocurrencies are not secure nor dependable in the way that people actually need them to be, and they don’t solve any of the actual problems that people have with the banking and credit system.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    Cryptocurrencies are secure and dependable in the way that I need them to be and they solve problems that I have with the banking and credit system. I mean, really. The security of the banking/credit system is not even based on public/private key cryptography. There is no notion of a separate spend address vs a sending address. Anyone with access to your (usually open source or easily findable) information can make a transaction on your behalf. Identity theft is a massive problem which is enabled by the current state of the industry.