4 ms·

I worked at Intel, and with process/fab people for a number of years. Everything you're seeing in the comments is true. Compensation is not that bad. Clearly,

I worked at Intel, and with process/fab people for a number of years. Everything you're seeing in the comments is true. Compensation is not that bad. Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. But if you're a fab person, you'll work long hours, be on call often (and you will get woken up often), and eventually will own a tool that you'll be responsible for, even when not on call. Lots of abusive and pathological behavior, as well. And they often block internal transfers so you're basically trapped. People with other skills (e.g. SW) get out. The rest are stuck, because they have, for example, a chemistry PhD and no other company will pay more. See this thread from a while ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30027143 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30027143

whacim 4y ago
There are also some indications that Washington is increasingly viewing semiconductors as a national security issue. There could be a shift in federal funding that could make the industry more attractive to talent again.
- nurspouse 4y ago
  The industry doesn't have a talent shortage, which explains the working conditions. There will always be grad students who think "Cool! I get to do research involving quantum mechanics!" Trust me, I've tried to talk them out of it and never succeeded.
smaddox 4y ago
I agree with all of this, unfortunately. I worked for Intel for two years after graduating with a PhD in EE. I learned a lot from the experience, but I can't recommend it. I work in software, now. The PhD was great, though. I loved doing semiconductor research. But make sure you work with a professor who is very good at fund raising.
irrational 4y ago
> Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. For some reason, I assumed that in order to be a chip designer you had to be as good at programming as a developer. Then I became friends with two intel chip designers/engineers and was surprised that neither knew much of anything about programming, despite both having multiple PhDs in their fields. That's when I began realizing that engineering and programming are 2 entirely different fields that have little overlap.
- greggman3 4y ago
  Not the same thing but ... In my experience, most browser developers (who write C++) don't know web development. In fact most of them disdane it, or at least that's how it feels. I find it kind of sad though I also understand it as I had the same attitude for the first 2~3 of years.
  - theflyinghorse 4y ago
    That is so odd. You're telling us the people who make these tools don't use their own tools, moreover they have disdain for the users of the tools they make?
    - pineconewarrior 4y ago
      Not op, but I think it's more a case like this: Folks who work on Chromium think little of those who wrangle wordpress themes
    - greggman3 4y ago
      I didn't mean to imply they disdain the users, only the Web Platform itself and or specifically JavaScript.
- frozenport 4y ago
  The discussion isn't about chip designers. It's about the guys that print what was designed.
- Taniwha 4y ago
  It does kind of depend - I've made a career of being both: being the log designer that understands software (and makes sure the registers make sense etc) and/or the software guy that understands the c hips (and can read the verilog and find the bug) etc etc Both require deep domain knowledge that doesn't always overlap - but being able to do both makes you more valuable
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Most EE’s program almost exclusively
oceanghost 4y ago
This tracks for me. I worked for a supplier for AMAT/Intel/Samsung etc. and was basically on-call 24/7. I had to carry two laptops with me at all times (my personal one and a work one). I didn't care because I was young, and well compensated, but they decided that they'd cut my pay by a third by converting me to a salaried employee. The unpaid overtime (previously paid as a contractor) lost its luster quickly. Once I realized I was subsidizing bad management because I was filling the gaps left by often intentional shortcuts taken-- for free, I bailed. That took... two months I think.

whacim 4y ago

There are also some indications that Washington is increasingly viewing semiconductors as a national security issue. There could be a shift in federal funding that could make the industry more attractive to talent again.

nurspouse 4y ago
The industry doesn't have a talent shortage, which explains the working conditions. There will always be grad students who think "Cool! I get to do research involving quantum mechanics!" Trust me, I've tried to talk them out of it and never succeeded.

smaddox 4y ago

I agree with all of this, unfortunately. I worked for Intel for two years after graduating with a PhD in EE. I learned a lot from the experience, but I can't recommend it. I work in software, now. The PhD was great, though. I loved doing semiconductor research. But make sure you work with a professor who is very good at fund raising.

irrational 4y ago

> Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. For some reason, I assumed that in order to be a chip designer you had to be as good at programming as a developer. Then I became friends with two intel chip designers/engineers and was surprised that neither knew much of anything about programming, despite both having multiple PhDs in their fields. That's when I began realizing that engineering and programming are 2 entirely different fields that have little overlap.

greggman3 4y ago
Not the same thing but ... In my experience, most browser developers (who write C++) don't know web development. In fact most of them disdane it, or at least that's how it feels. I find it kind of sad though I also understand it as I had the same attitude for the first 2~3 of years.
- theflyinghorse 4y ago
  That is so odd. You're telling us the people who make these tools don't use their own tools, moreover they have disdain for the users of the tools they make?
  - pineconewarrior 4y ago
    Not op, but I think it's more a case like this: Folks who work on Chromium think little of those who wrangle wordpress themes
  - greggman3 4y ago
    I didn't mean to imply they disdain the users, only the Web Platform itself and or specifically JavaScript.
frozenport 4y ago
The discussion isn't about chip designers. It's about the guys that print what was designed.
Taniwha 4y ago
It does kind of depend - I've made a career of being both: being the log designer that understands software (and makes sure the registers make sense etc) and/or the software guy that understands the c hips (and can read the verilog and find the bug) etc etc Both require deep domain knowledge that doesn't always overlap - but being able to do both makes you more valuable
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Most EE’s program almost exclusively

oceanghost 4y ago

This tracks for me. I worked for a supplier for AMAT/Intel/Samsung etc. and was basically on-call 24/7. I had to carry two laptops with me at all times (my personal one and a work one). I didn't care because I was young, and well compensated, but they decided that they'd cut my pay by a third by converting me to a salaried employee. The unpaid overtime (previously paid as a contractor) lost its luster quickly. Once I realized I was subsidizing bad management because I was filling the gaps left by often intentional shortcuts taken-- for free, I bailed. That took... two months I think.