5 ms·

>"This is turning into the West's version of Pakistan's brick kilns." Could you elaborate on this reference? I am not familiar with this.

jmyeet 4y ago
Brick kilns in Pakistan (and also Bangladesh and possibly other places) are a form of neoslavery [1]. What happens is that depserate people are forced to take a job but as part of that job they go into debt. The company provides housing? You'll have to pay that back. They provide food too. You'll have to pay that back. That's the point. For most there is absolutely no escaping that debt so they can't possibly get out of this situation (hence "neoslavery"). This form of coercion is violence and that's the point of having a budget shortfall in your existence: to make you a compliant worker whether you want to be or not. Another term for this (and what people think we're heading to) is neo-feudalism because we're getting closer and closer to being serfs effectively. [1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/10/21/the-spiralling-debt-trapping-pakistans-brick-kiln-workers https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/10/21/the-spiralling...
- bombcar 4y ago
  The railway heyday in the US was famous for this, extremely high wages at the time, but company town, company store, and miles and miles from anywhere. Few were able to come out the other end much better off. You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
  - ugl 4y ago
    Coal also. Lead to things like Blair mountain[0], where poison gas bombs from WWI were dropped on American workers, in America. There's four boxes. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
    - vgeek 4y ago
      Thank you. Most people haven't heard of this (even in KY/WV), which is odd, being one of the few instances where the military was used against citizens, helping illustrate that labor is to remain docile when abused. There are a handful of regional books detailing the mine wars (Life, Work, and Rebellion in the Coal Fields, The WV Coal Wars/more elementary and Robert Shogan's The Battle of Blair Mountain) that are worth checking out. PBS (American Experience?) also had a 2 hour special a few years back that focused on WV and Mother Jones that was worth watching.
    - racnid 4y ago
      Soap box, ballot box, jury box, and cartridge box?
- bogomipz 4y ago
  I see. Yeah this is known as "debt peonage." It also exists in the Gulf States of the Middle East in the form of the Kafala System where they use imported servitude from the Subcontinent/South Asia. It's how the World Cup will be able to played in Quatar this year. See: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-kafala-system https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-kafala-system and https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/02/reality-check-migrant-workers-rights-with-two-years-to-qatar-2022-world-cup/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/02/reality-... and https://humantraffickingsearch.org/kafala-system/ https://humantraffickingsearch.org/kafala-system/
- R0b0t1 4y ago
  We are already serfs. You own no land and pay rent to Uncle Sam. Stop paying? Not your land.
gilbetron 4y ago
I think it is equivalent to US's "company towns" or "company stores". A way to capture employee's money so they can't escape.

jmyeet 4y ago

Brick kilns in Pakistan (and also Bangladesh and possibly other places) are a form of neoslavery [1]. What happens is that depserate people are forced to take a job but as part of that job they go into debt. The company provides housing? You'll have to pay that back. They provide food too. You'll have to pay that back. That's the point. For most there is absolutely no escaping that debt so they can't possibly get out of this situation (hence "neoslavery"). This form of coercion is violence and that's the point of having a budget shortfall in your existence: to make you a compliant worker whether you want to be or not. Another term for this (and what people think we're heading to) is neo-feudalism because we're getting closer and closer to being serfs effectively. [1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/10/21/the-spiralling-debt-trapping-pakistans-brick-kiln-workers https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/10/21/the-spiralling...

bombcar 4y ago
The railway heyday in the US was famous for this, extremely high wages at the time, but company town, company store, and miles and miles from anywhere. Few were able to come out the other end much better off. You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
- ugl 4y ago
  Coal also. Lead to things like Blair mountain[0], where poison gas bombs from WWI were dropped on American workers, in America. There's four boxes. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
  - vgeek 4y ago
    Thank you. Most people haven't heard of this (even in KY/WV), which is odd, being one of the few instances where the military was used against citizens, helping illustrate that labor is to remain docile when abused. There are a handful of regional books detailing the mine wars (Life, Work, and Rebellion in the Coal Fields, The WV Coal Wars/more elementary and Robert Shogan's The Battle of Blair Mountain) that are worth checking out. PBS (American Experience?) also had a 2 hour special a few years back that focused on WV and Mother Jones that was worth watching.
  - racnid 4y ago
    Soap box, ballot box, jury box, and cartridge box?
bogomipz 4y ago
I see. Yeah this is known as "debt peonage." It also exists in the Gulf States of the Middle East in the form of the Kafala System where they use imported servitude from the Subcontinent/South Asia. It's how the World Cup will be able to played in Quatar this year. See: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-kafala-system https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-kafala-system and https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/02/reality-check-migrant-workers-rights-with-two-years-to-qatar-2022-world-cup/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/02/reality-... and https://humantraffickingsearch.org/kafala-system/ https://humantraffickingsearch.org/kafala-system/
R0b0t1 4y ago
We are already serfs. You own no land and pay rent to Uncle Sam. Stop paying? Not your land.

gilbetron 4y ago

I think it is equivalent to US's "company towns" or "company stores". A way to capture employee's money so they can't escape.