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So it wasn't "undersea cables off Hawaii" that were targeted, but rather servers on Hawaii that service those undersea cables. I expected submarine antics, whi

So it wasn't "undersea cables off Hawaii" that were targeted, but rather servers on Hawaii that service those undersea cables. I expected submarine antics, which would have a much smaller list of suspects. It sounds like this might not even be state-funded.

ffhhj 4y ago
I was thinking hackers in a narco-submarine [0], since cartels could perform such operations, and it's not far from their territories. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine They have already taken several cell-towers, why wouldn't they add some fiber...
- OtmaneBenazzou 4y ago
  they're not real submarines they're just boats really
- idontpost 4y ago
  > it's not far from their territories I think your sense of geography may be off a bit.
  - ffhhj 4y ago
    It's all about machines and oil, there's been reports of China's fishing boats making it to Galapagos and back, loaded! Don't think they needed a lot of tech to do it.
- robonerd 4y ago
  Eh, most narco-submarines aren't really submarines; almost all are semi-submersible boats that run low in the water with snorkels. However, organized crime using unmanned true submersibles might [soon, or presently] be feasible. The expertise needed to actually attack a cable in a constructive manner would be a significant barrier to clear, but not inconceivable for crime organizations that can kidnap and coerce tech professionals. The ability to splice fiber underwater with a drone submersible seems extremely advanced though. I think only a few nations might presently have such a capability. Nice summary of narco subs from HI Sutton: http://www.hisutton.com/Narco%20Subs%20101.html http://www.hisutton.com/Narco%20Subs%20101.html and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR18qhnGEpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR18qhnGEpM
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    Wow, this website and channel are cool! Thank you! I also learned from the YT comments that there is a theory that the Phoenecians might have crossed the Atlantic to South America, and that they might have brought back cocaine that was used by upper-class Egyptians. I expected this to be some kind of fringe conspiracy theory, but the Wikipedia page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Phoenician_discovery_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Phoenician_discove...) suggests that anthropologists think it's totally possible, but lacking in actual archaeological evidence to support it. Cool!
rightbyte 4y ago
An anchor on a rope would do fine no sub needed.
- mariusmg 4y ago
  An angry fish is all you need :)
  - scarmig 4y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/14/google-undersea-fibre-optic-cables-shark-attacks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/14/google-un...
JoblessWonder 4y ago
I mean, the chances of it being *not* state-funded are.... really slim, right? The risk is just... off the charts. I do understand that you said it was just a possibility it wasn't state funded though. It looks like this happened back in April and Homeland Security blamed "an international hacking ring" which always sounds like a nation-state organization to me. https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/13/hsi-agents-honolulu-disrupted-cyberattack-undersea-cable-critical-telecommunications/ https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/13/hsi-agents-honolulu...
- scarmig 4y ago
  I have a hard time imagining what an individual or private group of individuals would get from tapping or otherwise compromising underseas cables. Destroying infrastructure could make sense, as some kind of mayhem-creating terrorist plan. But there are much easier ways that require far less expertise, resources, and risk-tolerance for individuals to make a buck than tapping an underseas cable. Even if an attacker seemed like they were a private individual, I'd lean toward assuming they were acting at the behest of some nation-state and just managed to cover their tracks well.
- robonerd 4y ago
  I think organized crime doing this sort of thing is at least plausible, but I agree that state-funded seems likely. For criminal motive: I've read claims that some cartels have infiltrated telecom companies before, to track down informants or keep tabs on investigations. But from this angle, attacking cellular networks makes more sense than undersea cables.
binbag 4y ago
Yes, it was billed as a hardware attack underwater, but it's the hacking of servers very much on dry land...

ffhhj 4y ago

I was thinking hackers in a narco-submarine [0], since cartels could perform such operations, and it's not far from their territories. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine They have already taken several cell-towers, why wouldn't they add some fiber...

OtmaneBenazzou 4y ago
they're not real submarines they're just boats really
idontpost 4y ago
> it's not far from their territories I think your sense of geography may be off a bit.
- ffhhj 4y ago
  It's all about machines and oil, there's been reports of China's fishing boats making it to Galapagos and back, loaded! Don't think they needed a lot of tech to do it.
robonerd 4y ago
Eh, most narco-submarines aren't really submarines; almost all are semi-submersible boats that run low in the water with snorkels. However, organized crime using unmanned true submersibles might [soon, or presently] be feasible. The expertise needed to actually attack a cable in a constructive manner would be a significant barrier to clear, but not inconceivable for crime organizations that can kidnap and coerce tech professionals. The ability to splice fiber underwater with a drone submersible seems extremely advanced though. I think only a few nations might presently have such a capability. Nice summary of narco subs from HI Sutton: http://www.hisutton.com/Narco%20Subs%20101.html http://www.hisutton.com/Narco%20Subs%20101.html and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR18qhnGEpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR18qhnGEpM
- nerdponx 4y ago
  Wow, this website and channel are cool! Thank you! I also learned from the YT comments that there is a theory that the Phoenecians might have crossed the Atlantic to South America, and that they might have brought back cocaine that was used by upper-class Egyptians. I expected this to be some kind of fringe conspiracy theory, but the Wikipedia page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Phoenician_discovery_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Phoenician_discove...) suggests that anthropologists think it's totally possible, but lacking in actual archaeological evidence to support it. Cool!

rightbyte 4y ago

An anchor on a rope would do fine no sub needed.

mariusmg 4y ago
An angry fish is all you need :)
- scarmig 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/14/google-undersea-fibre-optic-cables-shark-attacks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/14/google-un...

JoblessWonder 4y ago

I mean, the chances of it being *not* state-funded are.... really slim, right? The risk is just... off the charts. I do understand that you said it was just a possibility it wasn't state funded though. It looks like this happened back in April and Homeland Security blamed "an international hacking ring" which always sounds like a nation-state organization to me. https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/13/hsi-agents-honolulu-disrupted-cyberattack-undersea-cable-critical-telecommunications/ https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/13/hsi-agents-honolulu...

scarmig 4y ago
I have a hard time imagining what an individual or private group of individuals would get from tapping or otherwise compromising underseas cables. Destroying infrastructure could make sense, as some kind of mayhem-creating terrorist plan. But there are much easier ways that require far less expertise, resources, and risk-tolerance for individuals to make a buck than tapping an underseas cable. Even if an attacker seemed like they were a private individual, I'd lean toward assuming they were acting at the behest of some nation-state and just managed to cover their tracks well.
robonerd 4y ago
I think organized crime doing this sort of thing is at least plausible, but I agree that state-funded seems likely. For criminal motive: I've read claims that some cartels have infiltrated telecom companies before, to track down informants or keep tabs on investigations. But from this angle, attacking cellular networks makes more sense than undersea cables.

binbag 4y ago

Yes, it was billed as a hardware attack underwater, but it's the hacking of servers very much on dry land...