3 ms·

How ridiculous is this? Do you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you?

by Canada 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> Do you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you? Yes, you do.
- Canada 4y ago
  How much is that worth if you aren't legally allowed to give anyone any money?
  - klyrs 4y ago
    No rights are absolute, they all have limitations when they impede on other rights. A history of unfair labor practices has established a precedent of limitations on "free association." Even the right to life has limitations in the US, if a judge finds you sufficiently heinous.
    - Canada 4y ago
      I'm not trying to advocate for some absolute freedom of action here. I'm saying it is, in my view, unreasonable that anyone who pays someone else a grand to do something suddenly has an obligation to report that to the government. To me, it seems excessive, and incompatible with the principles of a generally free society. I'm not convinced that any history of unfair labor practice justifies such reporting obligations, which imply some obligation to refuse to accept payment in exchange for performing some perfectly legal work. It seems to be that the purpose of this requirement is the convenience of enforcement of tax compliance and nothing more.
      - chipotle_coyote 4y ago
        > I'm saying it is, in my view, unreasonable that anyone who pays someone else a grand to do something suddenly has an obligation to report that to the government. Anyone doesn't have to do this; businesses have to do this, and only for certain kinds of services and business relationships with individuals or partnerships. (e.g., my publisher has to send a 1099 to me, one of their authors, but doesn't need to send a 1099 to Ingram, their printing company.) > It seems to be that the purpose of this requirement is the convenience of enforcement of tax compliance I don't think anyone's made any (plausible) claim that any IRS reporting requirement is somehow related to the history of unfair labor practice? The IRS is interested in finding out how much tax they're owed; it's not like they're being provided the data to make some kind of judgement about whether contractors are being paid fairly.
vel0city 4y ago
I have a lot of people I associate with that I've never paid >$600 to do labor for me. Being able to associate != hiring someone for a job If you need to pay your friends >$600 to hang out with you, you should probably re-evaluate your life.
- Canada 4y ago
  I'm not suggesting it's necessary to pay any person you associate with. It just seems a really intrusive restriction to legally report on anyone you pay. To me, it seems as absurd as having to file a report with the government on anyone you meet. I can see justification in narrow cases, but requiring it universally seems ridiculous to me.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    > you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you? > I'm not suggesting it's necessary to pay any person you associate with. So you agree the right to free association is orthogonal to the idea of hiring people to do a paid job then, right? In which case, how is having labor hiring laws a violation of free association, when you agree you can still freely associate with people? In which case, arguing "free association" in terms of arguing that labor hiring laws being unjust isn't really a valid argument then, huh? Like, I can go down to a park with a group of friends and not have to tell the government about it. I can attend a church and practice and not have to tell the government about it. I can have a dinner party at my home with my friends and not have to tell the government about it. I can freely associate with whoever I want, that's not a crime. I can't hire a bunch of people who are not legally allowed to work in this country, as currently the government wants to disincentive unrestricted immigration and have made this action of paying people for labor they deem improper illegal. This is an immigration policy, not a free association policy. FWIW, I'm one to argue we should relax some hiring practices and reduce barriers to immigration in many ways, but this really isn't a "free association" kind of issue.
    - bombcar 4y ago

How ridiculous is this? Do you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you?

by Canada 4y ago

How ridiculous is this? Do you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you?

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

> Do you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you? Yes, you do.

Canada 4y ago
How much is that worth if you aren't legally allowed to give anyone any money?
- klyrs 4y ago
  No rights are absolute, they all have limitations when they impede on other rights. A history of unfair labor practices has established a precedent of limitations on "free association." Even the right to life has limitations in the US, if a judge finds you sufficiently heinous.
  - Canada 4y ago
    I'm not trying to advocate for some absolute freedom of action here. I'm saying it is, in my view, unreasonable that anyone who pays someone else a grand to do something suddenly has an obligation to report that to the government. To me, it seems excessive, and incompatible with the principles of a generally free society. I'm not convinced that any history of unfair labor practice justifies such reporting obligations, which imply some obligation to refuse to accept payment in exchange for performing some perfectly legal work. It seems to be that the purpose of this requirement is the convenience of enforcement of tax compliance and nothing more.
    - chipotle_coyote 4y ago
      > I'm saying it is, in my view, unreasonable that anyone who pays someone else a grand to do something suddenly has an obligation to report that to the government. Anyone doesn't have to do this; businesses have to do this, and only for certain kinds of services and business relationships with individuals or partnerships. (e.g., my publisher has to send a 1099 to me, one of their authors, but doesn't need to send a 1099 to Ingram, their printing company.) > It seems to be that the purpose of this requirement is the convenience of enforcement of tax compliance I don't think anyone's made any (plausible) claim that any IRS reporting requirement is somehow related to the history of unfair labor practice? The IRS is interested in finding out how much tax they're owed; it's not like they're being provided the data to make some kind of judgement about whether contractors are being paid fairly.

vel0city 4y ago

I have a lot of people I associate with that I've never paid >$600 to do labor for me. Being able to associate != hiring someone for a job If you need to pay your friends >$600 to hang out with you, you should probably re-evaluate your life.

Canada 4y ago
I'm not suggesting it's necessary to pay any person you associate with. It just seems a really intrusive restriction to legally report on anyone you pay. To me, it seems as absurd as having to file a report with the government on anyone you meet. I can see justification in narrow cases, but requiring it universally seems ridiculous to me.
- vel0city 4y ago
  > you really have a right to free association if you have to file a report if you pay someone $600 to do something for you? > I'm not suggesting it's necessary to pay any person you associate with. So you agree the right to free association is orthogonal to the idea of hiring people to do a paid job then, right? In which case, how is having labor hiring laws a violation of free association, when you agree you can still freely associate with people? In which case, arguing "free association" in terms of arguing that labor hiring laws being unjust isn't really a valid argument then, huh? Like, I can go down to a park with a group of friends and not have to tell the government about it. I can attend a church and practice and not have to tell the government about it. I can have a dinner party at my home with my friends and not have to tell the government about it. I can freely associate with whoever I want, that's not a crime. I can't hire a bunch of people who are not legally allowed to work in this country, as currently the government wants to disincentive unrestricted immigration and have made this action of paying people for labor they deem improper illegal. This is an immigration policy, not a free association policy. FWIW, I'm one to argue we should relax some hiring practices and reduce barriers to immigration in many ways, but this really isn't a "free association" kind of issue.
  - bombcar 4y ago