4 ms·

Basic physics 101. The US produced 4 10^9 MWh in 2017 [1] That's roughly 11 10^6 MWh / day or 11 10^12 Wh /day So to power 50% of the US for half a da

• pfdietz 4y ago
  You do know that lithium is just a few percent of the mass of a lithium-ion battery, right? Also, I didn't realize that Li-ion batteries were the only conceivable energy storage technology.
• jeffbee 4y ago
  Ah, so the basic physics problems are twofold: 1) You don't know how little lithium is contained in a li-ion battery cell; and 2) You don't know that li-ion is less than half the global battery market.
  • IMTDb 4y ago
    You are right, I double checked. 275 10^10 Wh are needed as per my comment above and there is 160g of Lithium in a battery per kWh of capacity [1] 275 10^10 Wh = 275 10^7 kWh => 275 10^7 kW * 160 g / kWh = 45375 10^7 g = 453 750 tons This is far less than half the resources of the planet, but it's still a non negligible 1/40. To power half the American, for half a day, assuming that we willing to mine all the Lithium on earth, and assuming we don't need Lithium anywhere else the supply chain (hello solar panels !), and disregarding that the rest of the batteries are also using some valuable metals / rare earth (We will still need those 20 millions tons of batteries, that part is correct, they just won't be made of Lithium alone !) As you can see, Lithium-Ion batteries are not remotely sustainable if they aim to help replace the baseline production that is currently provided by fossil/nuclear with intermittent renewable. They can only be considered at the top of the curve to help renewable manage the peak power, where their ability shine and where the total needs are far, far lower. Other battery type do exist, I am willing to admit that, but grand parent projects all involve Lithium Ion batteries....because the other types are even less economically practical (more loss, less energy density, ...). Rechargeable batteries (Lithium Ion or otherwise) are perfectly fin to store intermittent energy. They just aren't remotely practical to run an entire country off their output, which is why we leverage "natural batteries" aka: fuel (plutonium, oil, coal or otherwise). [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-much-lithium-li-ion-vehicle-battery-paul-martin/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-much-lithium-li-ion-vehic...
    • ncmncm 4y ago
      Batteries will be a negligible fraction of utility storage, and lithium will be a negligible fraction of that. So, your concern trolling about battery materials is misplaced.
      • IMTDb 4y ago
        How will energy be stored then ? Where will the humongously large utility storage center located ? When does their construction start (and when are they scheduled for completion) and how are those going to be financed ?
        • ncmncm 4y ago
          Construction will pick up once there is enough renewable capacity to "charge" storage from. Storage that must be charged by burning NG would be stupid. There is no need for a storage "center". Energy will be stored wherever convenient. Utilities will build out zero-opex storage so they can drop NG opex. Many different storage technologies will be used. The cheapest ones will eventually be identified and used more. But anhydrous ammonia and hydrogen are certain despite being far from cheapest, because of other merits. Right now the overwhelming majority of utility storage is pumped hydro, using existing hydro power reservoirs. I expect various gravity methods, including pumped hydro, to continue to dominate. New pumped hydro will not consume watersheds. (But Energy Vault, NRGV, is strictly a scam.)