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> A far better plan for Europe would be to go 100% renewable asap, meaning no need for fossil fuel imports from any party. “asap” LOL Here in the real world,

by tomp 4y ago

> A far better plan for Europe would be to go 100% renewable asap, meaning no need for fossil fuel imports from any party. “asap” LOL Here in the real world, we have Germany, which has the strongest pro-green anti-nuclear agenda in Europe, but is (1) building coal plants, (2) financing Russian war and (3) blocking sanctions on Russia to save its economy (along with Hungary who are doing it for political reasons). The green agenda is a massive failure in the real world. Maybe it will work in 50 years (when “possible technological development” in batteries catches up) but not right now.

dane-pgp 4y ago
> Germany ... is (1) building coal plants That claim may be a little out of date, especially as the new government plans to phase out coal by 2030. It's true that a new coal power plant was opened in 2020, but it was "expected to be the last"[0]. Admittedly, it's also true that the country is temporarily reactivating old coal power plants to reduce Russian gas imports.[1] [0] https://ifrf.net/combustion-industry-news/new-coal-power-plant-opens-in-germany-expected-to-be-the-last/ https://ifrf.net/combustion-industry-news/new-coal-power-pla... [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-reactivates-coal-power-plants-amid-russian-gas-supply-threats/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-reactiv...
pydry 4y ago
Germany is not building more coal plants it it shutting them down.
- elteto 4y ago
  What are they going to do then? Go back to candles?
  - pydry 4y ago
    I assume theyll continue to source power from the wind and the sun.
- tomp 4y ago
  Let's not argue semantics. Building new plants, extending existing ones, digging more coal or importing it from abroad. It's all the same. "Green" energy failed, even for one of its biggest proponents. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-electricity-source/a-59168105 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-elec... > In the first half of 2021, coal shot up as the biggest contributor to Germany's electric grid, while wind power dropped to its lowest level since 2018.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    Your definition of failure is a funny one. So renewables are now consistently supplying 20-30% of Germanys electricity despite decades of efforts by the fossil and nuclear lobby, which essentially destroyed Germanys wind and solar industry (which was world leading). Nuclear on the other hand which, if you read what proponents said in the 50s, 60s and 70s, was going to give us unlimited free energy, is somehow deemed a success? Now that renewables are essentially eating fossils and nuclears lunch we are supposed to believe that some sort of nuclear technological revolution is just around the corner and all the high costs are due to the "bad government regulations" anyway?
  - pydry 4y ago
    It's not semantics. Germany built its last ever coal plant several years ago and has been slowly turning them off for a while now.
ncmncm 4y ago
Renewables are not dependent upon any battery development. Batteries work now, are getting cheaper at exponential rate, and are the most expensive form of storage.
Mlller 4y ago
Sanctions blocked specifically by Germany and Hungary (and noone else)? The oil ban, FWIW, was blocked or watered down by Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic (and supported by Germany): https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/09/hungary-slovakia-czech-republic-and-bulgaria-still-resisting-eu-ban-on-russian-oil https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/09/hungary-slovak... https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-russian-oil-ban-stalls-as-hungary-holds-up-sanctions/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-russian-oil-ban-stalls-a...

by tomp 4y ago

dane-pgp 4y ago

> Germany ... is (1) building coal plants That claim may be a little out of date, especially as the new government plans to phase out coal by 2030. It's true that a new coal power plant was opened in 2020, but it was "expected to be the last"[0]. Admittedly, it's also true that the country is temporarily reactivating old coal power plants to reduce Russian gas imports.[1] [0] https://ifrf.net/combustion-industry-news/new-coal-power-plant-opens-in-germany-expected-to-be-the-last/ https://ifrf.net/combustion-industry-news/new-coal-power-pla... [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-reactivates-coal-power-plants-amid-russian-gas-supply-threats/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-reactiv...

pydry 4y ago

Germany is not building more coal plants it it shutting them down.

elteto 4y ago
What are they going to do then? Go back to candles?
- pydry 4y ago
  I assume theyll continue to source power from the wind and the sun.
tomp 4y ago
Let's not argue semantics. Building new plants, extending existing ones, digging more coal or importing it from abroad. It's all the same. "Green" energy failed, even for one of its biggest proponents. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-electricity-source/a-59168105 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-elec... > In the first half of 2021, coal shot up as the biggest contributor to Germany's electric grid, while wind power dropped to its lowest level since 2018.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Your definition of failure is a funny one. So renewables are now consistently supplying 20-30% of Germanys electricity despite decades of efforts by the fossil and nuclear lobby, which essentially destroyed Germanys wind and solar industry (which was world leading). Nuclear on the other hand which, if you read what proponents said in the 50s, 60s and 70s, was going to give us unlimited free energy, is somehow deemed a success? Now that renewables are essentially eating fossils and nuclears lunch we are supposed to believe that some sort of nuclear technological revolution is just around the corner and all the high costs are due to the "bad government regulations" anyway?
- pydry 4y ago
  It's not semantics. Germany built its last ever coal plant several years ago and has been slowly turning them off for a while now.

ncmncm 4y ago

Renewables are not dependent upon any battery development. Batteries work now, are getting cheaper at exponential rate, and are the most expensive form of storage.

Mlller 4y ago

Sanctions blocked specifically by Germany and Hungary (and noone else)? The oil ban, FWIW, was blocked or watered down by Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic (and supported by Germany): https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/09/hungary-slovakia-czech-republic-and-bulgaria-still-resisting-eu-ban-on-russian-oil https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/09/hungary-slovak... https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-russian-oil-ban-stalls-as-hungary-holds-up-sanctions/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-russian-oil-ban-stalls-a...