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The well-off in North America stopped having kids because it has become socially unacceptable do so; at least in youth. The young "rural hick" mother is the can

The well-off in North America stopped having kids because it has become socially unacceptable do so; at least in youth. The young "rural hick" mother is the canonical image young women are told they must not become. We even air TV shows (e.g. Teen Mom) meant to portray the ostracization young mothers face in an effort to not let others realize the same fate. Having children is something well-off people have come to fear, believing it will leave them to become failures in the eye of society. The narrative changes when people grow older, nearing the end of a woman's viable productive years. All of a sudden it is "Why don't you have kids yet? You're not getting any younger. The clock is ticking." Once one overcomes dealing with the conflicting messaging and the emotional toil in that, this leaves time for one, occasionally two in the best case, children and no more. For others it is simply too late.

anon291 4y ago
> For others it is simply too late. Yup... you need to start very young to have a high chance of having more than two kids.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I'm not sure. Is this sarcasm?
  - nxm 4y ago
    A woman’s biological reproductive system starts declining after around 30 if I recall correctly
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Yeah, but in general it's not enough to impact having 2 kids. If getting pregnant for the first time at 30, you could wait the recommended 18 months between kids and still have two without it being a geriatric pregnancy. You don't need to start at 18 to have 2 kids.
      - anon291 4y ago
        That's not how pregnancy works. It can take quite a while to get pregnant. it's a bell curve. Certainly, a lot of couples will have another, but if you want to have another with a good chance of success (>90%), you have to start younger.
        giantg2 4y ago
        Where did you get that number? Under 35 still has a reasonably high chance of success. It's really after 35 that risks go up and likelihood goes down.
  - anon291 4y ago
    No. A few years ago, I looked at a study that said if you want three kids with >90% probability, you should marry at 23. For two kids, the age is 26-28 I think. This is the woman's age. Fertility decline rapidly after 30. Plus there's infertility between kids if you choose to breastfeed, etc. There's also a lot of other factors to consider that could delay having kids (miscarriages, difficulty conceiving, etc). Of course the father's age also matters but I don't have data on that.
alphabettsy 4y ago
> We even air TV shows (e.g. Teen Mom) meant to portray the ostracization young mothers face in an effort to not let others realize the same fate. You don’t see any issue with people who haven’t even completed high school having children?
- randomdata 4y ago
  I have heard some suggest that the high school age has biological complications related to child birth. I have no expertise to delve into that topic. Outside of those influences, in hindsight, the high school years would have been the perfect time to have children. They are virtually wasted years anyway, being old enough to be ready to start to spread your wings, but not considered old enough to do so. The time could be used productively to focus on the critical early years of rearing a child. Once you reach your prime, deemed ready to go out into the world and make something of yourself, your children will be starting to become independent. If you are well-off the financial supports are already in place, so that is moot. However, in practice, it would be a challenge because of how society demonizes it. Humans are social creatures that rely on a stable society to survive. Being ostracized from that society is a complication one logically tries to avoid.
  - JamesSwift 4y ago
    > Outside of those influences, in hindsight, the high school years would have been the perfect time to have children Umm what? Am I offbase in assuming you dont have kids? Its absolutely not a great idea to have children in high school. And I have 2 sisters who did. Without getting into too many details, I think it would have been more stable and much, _much_ easier if they didn't have children that young. Not only are you losing out on so much as a parent, but you are not even equipped to deal with the harshness of life for yourself let alone a completely helpless other person. Whats your plan as a 16/17 year old for your kid having a 105 temperature and having to go to the ER unannounced? Whats your plan to pay for daycare? Are you moving in with your partner at this point or do you play a weird game of parents being "separated" and shuttling between the houses? Do you even own a car? It makes no sense

anon291 4y ago

> For others it is simply too late. Yup... you need to start very young to have a high chance of having more than two kids.

giantg2 4y ago
I'm not sure. Is this sarcasm?
- nxm 4y ago
  A woman’s biological reproductive system starts declining after around 30 if I recall correctly
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Yeah, but in general it's not enough to impact having 2 kids. If getting pregnant for the first time at 30, you could wait the recommended 18 months between kids and still have two without it being a geriatric pregnancy. You don't need to start at 18 to have 2 kids.
    - anon291 4y ago
      That's not how pregnancy works. It can take quite a while to get pregnant. it's a bell curve. Certainly, a lot of couples will have another, but if you want to have another with a good chance of success (>90%), you have to start younger.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Where did you get that number? Under 35 still has a reasonably high chance of success. It's really after 35 that risks go up and likelihood goes down.
- anon291 4y ago
  No. A few years ago, I looked at a study that said if you want three kids with >90% probability, you should marry at 23. For two kids, the age is 26-28 I think. This is the woman's age. Fertility decline rapidly after 30. Plus there's infertility between kids if you choose to breastfeed, etc. There's also a lot of other factors to consider that could delay having kids (miscarriages, difficulty conceiving, etc). Of course the father's age also matters but I don't have data on that.

alphabettsy 4y ago

> We even air TV shows (e.g. Teen Mom) meant to portray the ostracization young mothers face in an effort to not let others realize the same fate. You don’t see any issue with people who haven’t even completed high school having children?

randomdata 4y ago
I have heard some suggest that the high school age has biological complications related to child birth. I have no expertise to delve into that topic. Outside of those influences, in hindsight, the high school years would have been the perfect time to have children. They are virtually wasted years anyway, being old enough to be ready to start to spread your wings, but not considered old enough to do so. The time could be used productively to focus on the critical early years of rearing a child. Once you reach your prime, deemed ready to go out into the world and make something of yourself, your children will be starting to become independent. If you are well-off the financial supports are already in place, so that is moot. However, in practice, it would be a challenge because of how society demonizes it. Humans are social creatures that rely on a stable society to survive. Being ostracized from that society is a complication one logically tries to avoid.
- JamesSwift 4y ago
  > Outside of those influences, in hindsight, the high school years would have been the perfect time to have children Umm what? Am I offbase in assuming you dont have kids? Its absolutely not a great idea to have children in high school. And I have 2 sisters who did. Without getting into too many details, I think it would have been more stable and much, _much_ easier if they didn't have children that young. Not only are you losing out on so much as a parent, but you are not even equipped to deal with the harshness of life for yourself let alone a completely helpless other person. Whats your plan as a 16/17 year old for your kid having a 105 temperature and having to go to the ER unannounced? Whats your plan to pay for daycare? Are you moving in with your partner at this point or do you play a weird game of parents being "separated" and shuttling between the houses? Do you even own a car? It makes no sense