5 ms·

In other words, the dysfunction (unemployment) on which capitalists rely, because it scares people into taking shitty deals, is a bit less of a problem... but i

by cs137 4y ago

In other words, the dysfunction (unemployment) on which capitalists rely, because it scares people into taking shitty deals, is a bit less of a problem... but it's also causing other dysfunctions, because it turns out that this is a shitty system.

adam_arthur 4y ago
Well, if you want uncontrolled inflation, keep advocating for policies that push unemployment below the rate of sustainable full employment. It seems to be making people happy, after all. Not like there are hundreds of years of economic history to learn from...
- xphilter 4y ago
  Ah yes, people getting jobs is what caused inflation. Not the trillions printed and given to scammy upper classes through fraudulent PPP loans and artificially low interest rates.
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    It's both. Do you think nominal wage gains coupled with real wage declines makes people happy? Check consumer sentiment polling which just hit an all time low, why don't you? It's funny to see society broadly reject the impact of covid era policy, yet some advocate to do more and more of it. Fed kept rates low in pursuit of unsustainably low unemployment, by the way, motivated by pressure from progressives
    - plaguepilled 4y ago
      Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.
      - adam_arthur 4y ago
        Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer
        eli_gottlieb 4y ago
        Why should labor eat the real losses from inflation rather than capital or rentiers?
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        They shouldn't but the mistake of handing out tons of helicopter money has already been made
        sky-kedge0749 4y ago
        > Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. By exacerbate I suppose you're imagining a cycle where higher wages result in higher prices which result in higher wages and so on. However wages are just another price in the market and it's not clear why the cycle needs to be broken after all prices have gone up except wages. We don't need to let workers end up holding the bag yet again.
        plaguepilled 4y ago
        I disagree, and I'm afraid you've made a slight error in categorisation there. You are referred to the PPP loans that the US gov delivered to businesses. I agree that these contribute to inflation, but note: these loans went to businesses to secure the individuals paycheques, not individuals directly, and indeed the wages were not affected. Thus, we have inflation as you describe, and the claim that increasing wages could help in an economic downfall is safe, for now. However, the PPP is not what I am advocating for, and most people serious about the topic agree there were far more efficient stimulus models that the Biden gov could have explored. If you somehow got the impression I am advocating for the PPP, my apologies. For an example of what I do advocate, I refer you to the stimulus packages provided by the Australian government during the GFC. There were two significant differences to the US govs and Australia's stimuli: for one, the Australian stimulus was delivered to individuals (increasing purchasing power of the individuals and stimulating further purchases) and secondly, it was done as a single lump sum early on in the crisis, and was done to promote spending rather than to replace income. This allowed Australia to then leave the GFC with relatively little damage (it can be shown that Australian debt soared afterwards, though it is widely agreed that the cause of that debt was the successor governments misspending rather than the GFC debt). To summarise, I reject your assertion that higher wages exacerbates inflation. If you have the 'wealth of economic history' to support your claim, please feel free to specify. (Side note: SBA.gov states that this was actually a Trump administration bill, not a 'progressive' bill, but that is irrelevant for the broader point I am making)
  - vkou 4y ago
    People getting jobs (and raises in those jobs) is absolutely what's causing main street, non-asset inflation. Wages growing results in prices growing. This is still beneficial for the people whose wages are growing. (Which, in the past year, have mostly been lower class workers. Gas going up in price sucks, but an extra two dollars an hour more than offsets it.)

by cs137 4y ago

adam_arthur 4y ago

Well, if you want uncontrolled inflation, keep advocating for policies that push unemployment below the rate of sustainable full employment. It seems to be making people happy, after all. Not like there are hundreds of years of economic history to learn from...

xphilter 4y ago
Ah yes, people getting jobs is what caused inflation. Not the trillions printed and given to scammy upper classes through fraudulent PPP loans and artificially low interest rates.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  It's both. Do you think nominal wage gains coupled with real wage declines makes people happy? Check consumer sentiment polling which just hit an all time low, why don't you? It's funny to see society broadly reject the impact of covid era policy, yet some advocate to do more and more of it. Fed kept rates low in pursuit of unsustainably low unemployment, by the way, motivated by pressure from progressives
  - plaguepilled 4y ago
    Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer
      - eli_gottlieb 4y ago
        Why should labor eat the real losses from inflation rather than capital or rentiers?
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        They shouldn't but the mistake of handing out tons of helicopter money has already been made
      - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
        > Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. By exacerbate I suppose you're imagining a cycle where higher wages result in higher prices which result in higher wages and so on. However wages are just another price in the market and it's not clear why the cycle needs to be broken after all prices have gone up except wages. We don't need to let workers end up holding the bag yet again.
      - plaguepilled 4y ago
        I disagree, and I'm afraid you've made a slight error in categorisation there. You are referred to the PPP loans that the US gov delivered to businesses. I agree that these contribute to inflation, but note: these loans went to businesses to secure the individuals paycheques, not individuals directly, and indeed the wages were not affected. Thus, we have inflation as you describe, and the claim that increasing wages could help in an economic downfall is safe, for now. However, the PPP is not what I am advocating for, and most people serious about the topic agree there were far more efficient stimulus models that the Biden gov could have explored. If you somehow got the impression I am advocating for the PPP, my apologies. For an example of what I do advocate, I refer you to the stimulus packages provided by the Australian government during the GFC. There were two significant differences to the US govs and Australia's stimuli: for one, the Australian stimulus was delivered to individuals (increasing purchasing power of the individuals and stimulating further purchases) and secondly, it was done as a single lump sum early on in the crisis, and was done to promote spending rather than to replace income. This allowed Australia to then leave the GFC with relatively little damage (it can be shown that Australian debt soared afterwards, though it is widely agreed that the cause of that debt was the successor governments misspending rather than the GFC debt). To summarise, I reject your assertion that higher wages exacerbates inflation. If you have the 'wealth of economic history' to support your claim, please feel free to specify. (Side note: SBA.gov states that this was actually a Trump administration bill, not a 'progressive' bill, but that is irrelevant for the broader point I am making)
- vkou 4y ago
  People getting jobs (and raises in those jobs) is absolutely what's causing main street, non-asset inflation. Wages growing results in prices growing. This is still beneficial for the people whose wages are growing. (Which, in the past year, have mostly been lower class workers. Gas going up in price sucks, but an extra two dollars an hour more than offsets it.)