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My point is AI to control a robot to pick strawberries is way more of a leap than someone picking strawberries by remote controlling a robot.

farleykr 4y ago
Right, but why not just go out in the field and pick strawberries instead of trying to involve AI and robots? To me this is an area where Ian Malcom’s point about can/should applies.
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  Because as this article shows, there is a large number of folks who would consider doing this type of work remotely but would not do it in person? Because it would enable folks who are handicapped to do this kind of work? Because it's simpler to do than perfecting an AI (hell you could train an AI based on this work)?
  - farleykr 4y ago
    I am totally onboard with helping folks who are handicapped and addressing other issues of disadvantage or injustice. My point is that I don't think it would be useful to try to make the act of strawberry picking itself easier.
    - riversflow 4y ago
      Berry farming in Calfornia is rapidly disappearing because our cost of living is so high it makes it more economical to ship year round from Chile. Many other crops will likely follow, at least according to a friend in agricultural finance. Medium term, as the global QoL increases the cost of labor for intensive crops are going make our diets very bland without further mechanization. Fruit picking is monotonous and back breaking work that pays absolutely miserably. That we have to import labor to do it, and even imported labor complains and strikes about pay says a lot.
- ImprobableTruth 4y ago
  ... because one is backbreaking labor while the other is something that people might even be willing to do recreationally (look at farming simulator)?
- MrPatan 4y ago
  Have you ever picked strawberries for a whole day? I haven't, but I don't hear good things about it.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    I haven't, either, but I have picked other kinds of fruit for a whole day and it's indeed pretty hard work. And in my case it was a family orchard, so it was "my" fruit and I got to munch on it while I worked; a commercial operation that presumably frowns upon its workers eating the merchandise sounds downright miserable.
- Karsteski 4y ago
  You're free to leave your job and go pick strawberries in 30 degree heat for a summer. You'd quickly see why no one wants to do such jobs. You speak like someone who has never worked in a factory or out in the fields. It's not glamorous, and there's a reason why these jobs are not desirable.
  - farleykr 4y ago
    I worked manual labor jobs of varying types for the first ten years I was a part of the work force and I experienced many types of suffering during such work, including being driven so hard I passed out and almost losing my foot to a stump grinder. I couldn't get my boot off because my foot was so swollen. Farming is inherently dignified and noble. The problem with picking strawberries is the corruption that would drive the strawberry pickers to pick as much as possible at any cost.
- petercooper 4y ago
  That's currently a huge problem in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 .. enough so that farmers are importing fruit from overseas to resell rather than grow and pick their own.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  Have you ever picked strawberries professionally? My understanding is that it's physically demanding and exhausting. Why not have automated fields providing cheaper produce?
bart_spoon 4y ago
I'm not sure it is. Yes, an AI solution isn't necessarily an easy problem to solve, but once it is solved, it scales extremely well. Having someone pick strawberries by robot does not. For every robot, you need an individual at the helm. How do you train them? How do deal with fluctuations in the number of people interested in picking at any given time? In a game like described above, part of the appeal is people have 0 obligations. They can start when they'd like, they can finish when they'd like, and there is no real world prize/penalty based on how well/poorly they perform. A person can hop on for 30 seconds or 5 hours, on a whim. They can get distracted, completely screw up, or sit idly while they do something else, and there are no real world consequences. If you try to recreate that same lack of obligation for a real world problem, you very likely could be setting yourself up for hurdles you simply can't deal with. If you begin to add consequences, you remove the appeal of the games with no obligations, and people won't participate. AI is hard to get going, but I'm not sure it is any more difficult than some of these other options, and once you do, you will scale far better.

farleykr 4y ago

Right, but why not just go out in the field and pick strawberries instead of trying to involve AI and robots? To me this is an area where Ian Malcom’s point about can/should applies.

candiddevmike 4y ago
Because as this article shows, there is a large number of folks who would consider doing this type of work remotely but would not do it in person? Because it would enable folks who are handicapped to do this kind of work? Because it's simpler to do than perfecting an AI (hell you could train an AI based on this work)?
- farleykr 4y ago
  I am totally onboard with helping folks who are handicapped and addressing other issues of disadvantage or injustice. My point is that I don't think it would be useful to try to make the act of strawberry picking itself easier.
  - riversflow 4y ago
    Berry farming in Calfornia is rapidly disappearing because our cost of living is so high it makes it more economical to ship year round from Chile. Many other crops will likely follow, at least according to a friend in agricultural finance. Medium term, as the global QoL increases the cost of labor for intensive crops are going make our diets very bland without further mechanization. Fruit picking is monotonous and back breaking work that pays absolutely miserably. That we have to import labor to do it, and even imported labor complains and strikes about pay says a lot.
ImprobableTruth 4y ago
... because one is backbreaking labor while the other is something that people might even be willing to do recreationally (look at farming simulator)?
MrPatan 4y ago
Have you ever picked strawberries for a whole day? I haven't, but I don't hear good things about it.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  I haven't, either, but I have picked other kinds of fruit for a whole day and it's indeed pretty hard work. And in my case it was a family orchard, so it was "my" fruit and I got to munch on it while I worked; a commercial operation that presumably frowns upon its workers eating the merchandise sounds downright miserable.
Karsteski 4y ago
You're free to leave your job and go pick strawberries in 30 degree heat for a summer. You'd quickly see why no one wants to do such jobs. You speak like someone who has never worked in a factory or out in the fields. It's not glamorous, and there's a reason why these jobs are not desirable.
- farleykr 4y ago
  I worked manual labor jobs of varying types for the first ten years I was a part of the work force and I experienced many types of suffering during such work, including being driven so hard I passed out and almost losing my foot to a stump grinder. I couldn't get my boot off because my foot was so swollen. Farming is inherently dignified and noble. The problem with picking strawberries is the corruption that would drive the strawberry pickers to pick as much as possible at any cost.
petercooper 4y ago
That's currently a huge problem in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 .. enough so that farmers are importing fruit from overseas to resell rather than grow and pick their own.
ALittleLight 4y ago
Have you ever picked strawberries professionally? My understanding is that it's physically demanding and exhausting. Why not have automated fields providing cheaper produce?

bart_spoon 4y ago

I'm not sure it is. Yes, an AI solution isn't necessarily an easy problem to solve, but once it is solved, it scales extremely well. Having someone pick strawberries by robot does not. For every robot, you need an individual at the helm. How do you train them? How do deal with fluctuations in the number of people interested in picking at any given time? In a game like described above, part of the appeal is people have 0 obligations. They can start when they'd like, they can finish when they'd like, and there is no real world prize/penalty based on how well/poorly they perform. A person can hop on for 30 seconds or 5 hours, on a whim. They can get distracted, completely screw up, or sit idly while they do something else, and there are no real world consequences. If you try to recreate that same lack of obligation for a real world problem, you very likely could be setting yourself up for hurdles you simply can't deal with. If you begin to add consequences, you remove the appeal of the games with no obligations, and people won't participate. AI is hard to get going, but I'm not sure it is any more difficult than some of these other options, and once you do, you will scale far better.